Portland: The scene of Architects Gone Wild!!!
Yes, it appears a roving gang of angry, torch-wielding men with pocket protectors and T-squares is standing in front of plans to tear down the stinky old rat hotel known as Memorial Coliseum:
That brought the discussion back to tearing down the coliseum, an idea that has created an uproar in the city’s architecture community.
Basically, what the story says is that now the city is again contemplating putting the new baseball stadium in Lents, rather than at the Rose Quarter, because, uh, you know you just can’t tear down that timeless architectural symbol, the Great Pyramids, the Taj Mahal… oops, Memorial Coliseum — hereafter known as the Eighth Wonder of the World.
My goodness, when you start getting an “uproar” in this city’s architecture community, it’s time to nail the windows shut, run to the bomb shelter, put on the hard hat and crawl under the bed. But really, judging from the rather uninspired look of everything that’s been built around here for the last 30 years, who knew the city even had an architectural “community”?
The Angry Architects, if they are this powerful, ought to forget about silly coliseum issues and get to work on figuring out how to save their jobs. With the economy nipping away at them, I’m stunned there were enough of them left to form an opinion on this issue.
Actually, maybe it is a jobs issue. It’s certainly going to take hundreds of architects to figure out a way to make that old dump Eighth Wonder of the World functional again.
Baseball, Soccer, small-town Portland | Dwight Jaynes | April 24, 2009
architects, baseball stadium, Dwight Jaynes, Lents, Memorial Coliseum, Rose Quarter
I drove by Lents Park yesterday. I just can’t see the ball park there. You know Portland has this stigma of being thought of as being a small town.
Put the stadium in Lents and guess what have.
Portland has an “architecture community?” Where were they when that horrendous Michael Graves’ Portland building was built?
If Yankee Stadium can be demolished, the Memorial Coliseum certainly can go.
Ahhhh……life in the People’s Republic of Portland. Rule by the “intellectuals and social elite.”
The people who should be most upset are your and my accountants. Paulson wants to take us all to the cleaners.
For goodness sake, destroy it already. It’s an eyesore next to the RG. If they can tear down Yankee Stadium, how can we put up such a fight for this blemish?
The cleaners? This is chump change for a city this size. I will GLADLY pay to see the first new ballpark built here since about 1905. Go ahead, do nothing with Memorial Coliseum and watch what THAT ends up costing us. If we can have a convention center that I never visit, we can certainly have a ballpark I’d visit all the time.
You keep painting this as something for Merritt Paulson. Ballparks and stadiums belong to the citizens, not the team owners. They always have. Paul Allen built the Rose Garden and the city lucked out — it would have been a bargain for the taxpayers to build, with all we’ve gotten out of it. Hell, we’ve gotten more out of it than Paul Allen has. Virtually every other city IN THE WORLD recognizes the value of public gathering places. Portland does not. We are such a small, small town — with the metro population of a major city.
– Dwight
Let’s not forget that once a building is destroyed it can’t be un-destroyed. Without public debate, buildings will get torn down by their owners…. for better or worse. And quite often a city is defined by its landmarks which are often buildings.
A few examples, for better or worse:
* The Taj Mahal – scheduled destruction in the 1830′s to sell its marble to English gentry. Destruction order canceled by London.
* The Eiffel Tower – 1909, saved because the radio antennae was useful. At the time, the Eiffel Tower was considered an eyesore.
* Seattle’s Pioneer Square (several buildings) – saved in the 60′s thanks to Bill Speidel and other historic preservationists. The underground tours are a tourist destination today.
* The Portland Carriage house is still standing and isn’t a parking garage.
* The Old Post Office Pavilion in Washington D.C. was saved because of (ironically) the Great Depression and lack of funds to tear it down.
This list does not, deliberately, include all famous buildings, simply to show that historic preservation isn’t an exact science. But it can be very valuable to a community.
So argue your point that Memorial should be torn down, but please , try to be civil and realize that some buildings, even the ones you don’t like, *might* be worth saving.
Didn’t mean to repeat Matt’s comment about Yankee Stadium, I hadn’t read it.
Eric — please… it’s an old, out of date, broken down, almost abandoned sports arena. Boston Garden was torn down. Chicago Stadium was torn down. The “Fabulous Forum” in Los Angeles was abandoned. But Memorial Coliseum should stay? Puh-lease.
– Dwight
Once again you missed the point. The MC wouldn’t be an”eyesore” as you call it, had it been maintained. It needs work, I agree, but when the planners and design team aren’t certain of a fit in the RQ, one has to wonder who really is pulling the City’s strings. The money that was supposed to maintain the facility hasn’t been used and then there are the countless events that continue to use the venue because compared to all the other sites the MC is by far a cheaper place to go.
Upgrade it or rebuild it just don’t reduce it to one building only.
The Paulsons, and Allens simply have too much control on the City of Portland and with all the recent news on this whole boondoggle, don’t you think that they would have known better than to promote something without having all their collective ducks in a row.
PGE Park was recently (2001) renovated and does just fine. Tell me why when between 1000 and 6000 go to PGE Park for baseball that there is justification for a new baseball stadium. MLS is a money loser for 80% of the teams right now and for this we justify reducing PGE Park to just 20 dates a year for soccer? MLS has that type of pull to say you have to have a soccer only stadium? There are other teams with a Multipurpose venue that house MLS and this is no exception.
If you’re going to build a park consider Delta Park, a vast area that is untapped and will at some point have a new bridge that can give access or add on to light rail.
Stuart, I’m afraid YOU missed the point,. Maintaining MC is only one problem. You can take beautiful care of it, make it spic and span, etc. — but it will still not have enough rest rooms or concession stands by modern standards and the concourses will still be too small. I invite you to attend an event there with more than 4,000 spectators. It’s non-functional and because of the restrictive nature of the architecture, that’s not fixable. Never has been although many have tried to figure out a way.
PGE Park’s renovation was botched. The city picked the wrong RFP at the time (I warned about this in The Oregonian) so ended up with another building that doesn’t fit modern standards people have come to expect in regard to rest rooms, concourses, concessions, etc.
– Dwight
My father was the lead structural engineer on the Coliseum when it was built way back when. He was so proud of his work on this edifice that he drove from our house in southeast Portland down to the Coliseum during the height of the Columbus Day storm in the early 60s because he’d heard an erroneous report on our transistor radio that the roof had blown off. The Blazers became a franchise the year I got my drivers license and I have followed them enthusiastically ever since, despite living in Reno since 1976. So, I have many fond memories of the Memorial Coliseum. My dad passed away about a decade ago and I haven’t been to the Coliseum in several decades–it’s time to leave the past in the past and move ahead into the future. I know there’ll be no tears shed on my account if the old building is eventually torn down. By the way, my dad, as is customary with most engineers, couldn’t stand architects, even though he had to work with them all the time.
The fact remains that MC will continue to haemmorrhage money, which is bad enough on it’s own but doubly so when you consider the revenue (to name just one benefit) the city misses out on for every minute it sits decaying on that plot rather than raze it and build a new park in it’s place.
dwight is right! the mc should be torn down and we should build a new ballpark there which will bring construction jobs and a good number of ancilliary jobs too…too too many naive portlanders don’t understand what a truly good [sweet acutally] deal pdx is getting in the whole mls/aaa baseball thing–vancouver is seeing fit to spend at least 200 million for their new major league soccer venue–ours will cost a small fraction of that…
The “protests” had nothing to do with it- Adams doesn’t consult with anyone but little Sam.
The real reason for the delay in this exercise in fiscal stupidity is that he lost his swing vote on the council when he realized that Adams will definitely be recalled.
Thanks for the common sense Dwight! You are 100% correct. The audacity of Portlanders thinking the Memorial Coliseum is a more important building than Yankee Stadium is sickening.
The truth is that Portland is full of full-blown first-class jerks that hide behind their little computer screens. Elitists, pseudo tax experts, and people too stuck in their little theories…too blind or too busy to stare reality in the face…the Coliseum sucks.
They would know that if they ever left their bitter little liberal and conservative worlds.
Mike, who’s father was a structural engineer shouldn’t generalize from his father’s view about how engineers feel about architects. I spent my 30-year career as a mechanical engineer working with architects and I admired most of them. Architects are artists and Portland is blessed with many striking buildings. Like other artists there will always be those who disagree with their tastes.
I don’t have a position on the Colisium but if, IN FACT, there are a lot of architects in favor of keeping it, then I’d give their view a lot of weight because they are the experts on the worth of buildings.
That said, I’d sure want to see a complete list of the architects who are in favor of keeping the coliseum, because I’m skeptical that it’s very long, based on my memory of the building.
Tear it down. Portland’s “architect community”, if there is such a thing, should be much more excited about building a brand-spanking-new ballpark rather than retrofitting a stale old box of a building.
I hope for the sake of MLB in PDX that the MLB front office isn’t watching this stadium debacle unfold.
Nice to see the wheels falling off this MLS trainwreck. Now that there is going to be a 3 month standby, that will coincide with the recall of the Sam the mensroom bandito….
Dwight, I have a question for you. Do you think that the people of Portland should be allowed to vote on this issue?
This is a blatant attempt by Sam Adams to save his job. I would shocked if Adams even knew what end of the bat to hold on to! In my mind this is less about the demolition of the M.C., and much more about people being sick to death of government entities like Portland City Council pulling crap like this, and thinking that they can’t be stopped.
I’m confused.
http://www.dwightjaynes.com/soccer-is-the-sport-of-the-future
C — What does your confusion have to do with me? The post you point toward says I’d love to see them get an MLS franchise but I wouldn’t want to invest in it. And I’d obviously like to see a ballpark in the Rose Quarter, rather than a dilapidated old coliseum.
– Sorry, perhaps that concept is just too complicated,
– DJ
I don’t think you can separate out the two. The only reason a ball park ANYWHERE in Portland is being considered is because of MLS. It’s not like there was some movement to give the Beavers a new stadium prior to Paulson going after an MLS franchise. Investing in a new ballpark is investing in MLS.
Hey Jack Bog-
Don’t you realize that the MC is going to cost us around $50 million if we keep it around. It needs a ton of work to make it safe and operational. Not worth it at all! The issue of the baseball stadium and the MC are seperate, and the MC is NOT worth saving! Get a clue!
While I agree that a minor league baseball stadium would be a lot more functional then the current MC you seem to be forgetting that Portland is a green city and tearing down a large historic building for a new one is out of line on how city planners try to preserve this city. I know, it sounds hippie and stupid but that is probably going through their minds right now. And if you step on their ego you will find serious resistance and a lack of cooperation for anything.
Here’s your solution. Have a plan where raising the MC also reuses the facility to an extent. Can the bowl of the MC be used in the new stadium? Can the old facade be used with the new ball park? If you give the designers/architects these challenges while making it sustainable for 100+ years, then you can use this part of the design community to get excited about building a new ball park.
I guarantee if stroke the egos of the people still pondering these decisions and put them in a position to succeed then you’ll find them looking to help you get your stadium.
Blow that stinky old eyesore sky high
Welcome to the 21st century folks
That building is way way past it’s prime. Now it is just in the way. That land can now be used for a brand new baseball staduim as well as an overall entertainment complex
Quit reliving the past…time to move forward
You know what would be ironic beyond words? We build the minor league stadium that holds 7,500. Then in a couple of years a Major League Baseball franchise becomes available that needs to play in a 20,000 seater ’til we build the big stadium – just like the pro-baseball people around here used to lobby for not too long ago.
But we have to tell them no because we dumped our 20,000-seat ball park so a MLS team could make it soccer only.
Then the people now advocating for the MC to be torn down for this, would go down in history as the ones who prevented Major League Baseball from coming to town.
Don’t let it happen, Dwight. Put aside your love for soccer for a second, and think about saving PGE Park to snag a big league baseball franchise. Keep it so both sports can play there, until we tear down MC for a reason befitting its history – to get major league ball.
And if that’s a bad plan for PGE Park, why were you for it the first time?
I see a lot of uneducated folks hear yellin tear it down , but it is in my professional opinion a Modern Masterpiece.
I and all the members of the Arch/Design Community spent many years studying design
and believe we should keep our fine built heritage intact. PDX is full of vacant land for a stadium , which is wayyy cheaper than demo.
“I see a lot of uneducated folks hear yellin tear it down…”
Yeah, I “here” you. Totally uneducated.
I will state it once again…the only thing the old glass barn is good for is frying any unfortunate person that happens to be walking around the concourse on a sunny day…
Who gives a damn about soccer. Do whatever we need to in order to get MLB here. I’m not educated on this issue so I don’t know what it is that needs to be done, but who cares where the stupid soccer team plays, put them on the damn middle school field and bring in some bleachers for the 12 fans that will be watching it.
If the proposed park that would be built to replace MC is not big enough for an MLB team (or expandable) then it is a waste of money
My favorite comments:
1. eric – “Without public debate, buildings will get torn down by their owners…” so much for property rights, I guess.
2. graham – “This is a blatant attempt by Sam Adams to save his job.” Ummmmmm… anyone who has ever been elected to public office knows that being tied to a public stadium funding effort (no matter small) is one of the WORST ways to get reelected. Sam is spending his political capital, not building it. And that’s exactly why the newbies (Fish and Fritz) voted no on it, while the council veterans (Leonard and Saltzman) voted yes. Look around at any public stadium vote… when it passes, it passes by the minimum number of votes, and the “yes” votes are the ones who have the least to lose politically.
3. billb – “PDX is full of vacant land for a stadium , which is wayyy cheaper than demo.” Yeah that’s real smart bill, let’s build a stadium out in Damascus where there is plenty of cheap land. It will be just like that Kevin Costner movie. Those stadiums in the boondocks are soooo successful, like the one in …. ummmm… errrr… like the one in that movie.
Even if it’s expandable – and I doubt they’d go to that expense – we’d need a place for the MLB franchise to play while the new stadium is built. That’s why PGE Park was perfect. That, and it’s where Willie Stargell hit the legendary home run.
By the way since the Dodgers went west in 1958, there has been – on average – one relocation or expansion team every 8 years. Should be another one coming right up, especially in this economy. Too bad we’re trying so hard to get out of the game now.
By the way, if they are going to keep a rotting, glass-encased corpse in the city, shouldn’t they put formaldehyde or something in it? You know, like Lenin’s tomb. (feel free to take that analogy wherever you want)
The problem isn’t whether the coliseum is a treasured relic or an eyesore — the problem is that Mayor McSmoothpants wants to fast track action without adequate public input, putting taxpayers on the hook for a quarter billion dollars for stadiums for Richy Rich’s teams to playing, “incidentally” saving his political posterior…
LEAVE THE DAMNED BUILDING ALONE FOR A YEAR!!!
….teams TO PLAY IN, “incidentally saving his political posterior…
We’re one them ‘progressive’ states – we should have gotten our pals in Washington to throw money in the “stimulus” and “budget supplemental pork” bills passed earlier this year to fund our stadium destruction and construction projects.
Opportunity wasted – where were you Wyden, Merkley, and Blumenauer ?
Billb,
Calling people “uneducated” because they have a different opinion either makes you narrow minded or a jackass.
It just hit me.
Bam!, Pow!, Zap!
Dwight, you know I am a HUGE hockey fan so don’t crap on my idea too quickly. If the money was right, Allen should buy an NHL team. It’s been talked about almost as much as the MC but the RG is built to support an NHL team as well as the Blazers. We want another “major league” team and Portland starts to show that it can be a big market player. I know it won’t happen but, hell, I can dream.
So with that settled lets build a nice stadium for the Bevos where the MC is. It has built in parking which has always been a problem for the team and its fans, with three teams in the RQ it would bring people to the area all but one month of the year, being centrally located it will bring in more spectators, and it will be built to a AAA standard that PGE park is not.
BTW, I am still getting the gunk off my shoes from the last game I attended in the MC and that was in March.
One last note. For those that think this process is moving too fast, have you forgotten about the hundreds of thousands of dollars that were spent in the beginning of this decade for studies on the MC? How many decades do we need to discuss the matter? 2? 3? How about 5 more that way the MC will be 100 and we can have a centennial celebration. We won’t be able to go inside or be too loud since that would cause the building to fall into itself.
Cheers
billb,
PDX? Thats a horrible place for a ballpark. It has a Max line and hotels but who wants to drive to the airport for a baseball game? Geez get a clue.
Vacant land is cheaper than demo? Hmmm. The only cost that has stayed relatively the same regarding the MC is the cost to raze the building not only that but the land the Ballpark is proposed to go on is already paid for so how is that more expensive? Since the “Arch/Design Community” have spent many years studying design then you already know about the Memorial Coliseum Study: Phase II Report the city and task forces have discussed for many years. If any of the plans were top notch why haven’t they been implemented? Just food for thought.
Prost
Anarchitects versus the Starchitects….may the best brand win.
Someone suggested deconstructing the MC and using as much of it as possible for PSU’s new on-campus basketball arena. What is wrong with that idea? This is a green solution with public benefits all around.