One final word about Jerryd Bayless
I talked to three people last night not connected to the Trail Blazer organization who were on hand in Las Vegas for the summer league. After promising anonymity I got some very frank observations. Everyone seemed to see him the same way:
“He’s a pretty good player. He can get to the basket and he can score. But he’s not a point guard. He can bring the ball up, I think. But he doesn’t see other people. He doesn’t seem to know how to create for other people or when to get them the ball. He’s not a playmaker.”
“He’s got a scorer’s mentality. He will score. He needs to get better from the outside. If he can hit a jump shot he’s going to be tough to defend. But I didn’t seen him hit many.”
“He could be a point guard, just not in the traditional sense. He’s not going to set a lot of people up. He’s a scorer and a tough kid. I’m not sure how well he’ll defend 2s, though. He might be better off with a team that can just let him be what he is — a guy who wants to go to the basket. But he needs to learn how to get the ball to people if he’s stopped.”
People have accused me in the comments of being down on Bayless and that’s not the case. I’m just trying to objectively speak about him as this team’s point guard of the future. I’ve thought since last season he just doesn’t have that point guard mentality and it’s something that’s pretty difficult to instill at this point of a player’s career.
There is no question in my mind a deal will be made for another point guard before the season opens.
NBA, Trail Blazers | Dwight Jaynes | July 20, 2009
Dwight Jaynes, Jerryd Bayless, Portland Trail Blazers, summer league
Your analysis seems clear-headed to me, Dwight. Sometimes it seems that many folks in Portland want so badly for the team to succeed, they convince themselves something is true, when the evidence points in the other direction. For example, at the beginning of last season, when Greg Oden was starting what was truly his rookie season, people displayed shock that he was not immediately tearing up the league. And when Jerryd did not show the skills of a point guard throughout the season, people kept stating that he just needs time to develop those skills.
Jerryd has the toughness the Blazers need, but so do I. It’s those danged skills that are so pesky.
I think I’m one of the last people to come around on this issue, but I think it’s becoming abundantly clear that Nate McMillan has been correct the whole time in saying you can’t teach a player to be a point guard at the NBA level (paraphrasing of course).
You make a great point. It’s all about a players’ instincts and it’s pretty clear that Jerryd doesn’t have PG instincts. He reminds me a lot of Ben Gordon except he doesn’t shoot as well. I have heard many interviews with Nate and KP and they both have said many times that Jerryd is a score first guy. I heard both Nate and KP say that they need to find ways to take advantage of his score first mentality. Obviously, the Blazer brass understands what he is and contrary to popular belief they are not trying to change him. I think they are analyzing him to see if or where he fits. I think that remains to be seen.
If he were a great outside shooter, like Gordon (instead of a lousy one) then I’d say he could play off of Roy, who handles the ball a lot. But he’s not.
Players have trouble switching positions even if it’s from left tackle to right tackle. Going from a shooting guard to point is a huge leap. Not to mention that years ago when Bayless and his buddies were just kids starting to play basketball, there was a reason why he became a shooting guard. This is fundamental identity stuff. There was probably someone in the neighborhood who was better at point even then.
The outside shot was not a problem before. Jerryd was great last summer but a year of reprogramming has scrambled his head to the point where he’s lost his shooting a little. He’s thinking too much out there but he’s a scorer – that’s not the problem.
There’s got to be a sports website devoted to how often a big-time college shooting guard makes the switch to NBA point. I’d like to see those numbers. I bet they’re pretty thin.
I suggest the ardent Bayless Believers head down to the self-improvement section of Powell’s and pick up some of those books intended for women in bad relationships. They have titles like “You Can’t Change Him” and “He Is What He Is” and “If He Really Loved You He Would Pass You The Ball More and Shoot Less”.
I too really like Bayless’ aggressiveness, willingness to defend, tenacity- all remind me of a young Gary Payton. But his inherent strengths are those of a shooting guard and his inherent weaknesses are those most needed in a point guard- court vision, passing skills, desire to distribute, turnover proneness.
Except in very rare cases, players possessing some natural skills at a position far excel over players who don’t. We’ve see this in every sport. Anyone whose followed the NBA for a couple of decades or more has seen many Jerryd Baylesses come and go and knows how they pan out. He is what he is- an undersized 2-guard who has yet to develop a reliable shot.
Sure, players can develop and improve- Terry Porter was a natural point guard and became a better point guard. Jermaine O’Neal was a young underdeveloped power forward who became a mature, skilled power forward. I suspect Bayless will also eventually become a better version of what he already is…but history says he likely won’t transform into something that he’s not.
I think Bayless could eventually develop into a Billups like PG in 5 years give or take. But do we want to wait that long? Also it is not a sure thing that it will happen. I think Bayless could be good teamed up with Rudy. Bayless guards the PG’s, Rudy the SG. Bayless has the skill set to take the ball up the court, Rudy is not that great at dribbling in the open court. Bayless gets the ball up the court and hands off to Rudy (or Roy if he is in the game) and they then run the offense while Jerryd creates space and gets ready to attack or shoot should he get a kick out. I think that is why the Blazers wanted Turk, with Turk in the game running the point-forward they could have almost any combination of Blake, Roy, Rudy, Bayless, Batum, or Webster at the two gaurd spots. I think the point-forward (or point-center) is a highly underrated position. Everyone is real quick to say the Magic are better with VC over Turk but a tall guy running the point can see the floor so much better and then can make passes others can’t, especially to other tall post players.
I agree that he could play off of Roy, if he were a good outside shooter. Preferably a very good outside shooter. Then there would still be his megalomania to deal with, of course.
You can’t turn a scorer into a point guard. They don’t see the court the way you need to in able to distribute effectively. They see the court in terms of zones that facilitate an open space for them to launch from.
This is about 35% of how Blake sees the floor. He knows in order to stay on the floor, he can’t facilitate 100% of the time, so he creates open opportunities for himself (the elbow jumper, the top of the key 3, or the occasional scoop layup). The other 65%, Blake is trying to figure out how the screen he just dribbled off of will open up the back door cut, the screener rolling to the basket, or the collapsing wing defender that left his man for an open jump shot.
Bayless sees it as, “Did it slow the defender enough for me to get the step I need to get up in the air to finish? I can finish or get fouled every time.”
I think they should try to move Bayless while his stock is high. They talk about trying to get guys that are the right fit. JB’s identity crisis on the floor speaks for itself.
Bayless reminds me of a kid I played with in college. Almost unstoppable going to the hole 1 on 1, but Ray Charles could see the floor better them him. I really don’t like Bayless game, but that’s just my opinion. I just can’t stand guys with no basketball IQ and no passing ability. There is a place for him in this league though with his athletic abiltity, but I really hope we can package him with Outlaw for something decent Because I’m telling you guys like this don’t get you to where you wanna go.
Ray Charles!! That is VERY funny!!! It’s also true..
When I saw that the title of this column was ‘one final word on Bayless’ I literally started thinking of one-word descriptions for him: aggressive, bulldog, competitive, etc.
Lest the pendulum swing too far in the opposite direction and everyone starts shitting on the kid, I’d like to remind y’all of several extremely competent players with the same skill set/mentality: Andrew Toney, Vinnie Johnson, Leandro Barbosa, Monta Ellis, etc. He can still help us (a lot!) even if he never learns to play point.
Some people here just can’t think outside the box. Apparently Team USA can as well as other people with NBA experience. No Jerryd will never be a jason kidd or chris paul. However, he could mature into a Chauncey Billups/Tony Parker type of attacking point.
As much as I like to see Kidd play, I like the rings that are on Billups and Parker’s fingers.
Incidentally Portland needs another scorer on the floor. Houston exposed our over-reliance on Roy and LA. Conversely, I didn’t see Houston complain a whole bunch when there PG Brooks ran circles around Blake and scored at will…
Parker, Rondo, and Fisher are the last 3 point guards to win a ring. Having a scoring point guard is not a bad thing folks
The invite to the Team USA workouts doesn’t really hold a ton of validation to saying that Bayless will be a good PG for the Blazers. It says, yea, they think he can play. It does not mean they think he is a playmaker. Not so sure about the comparison to Brooks either. Cuz Brooks can shoot. Bayless can score; but I don’t think any one would call him a shooter. As that third option for the Blazers Bayless will have to learn to shoot. Bayless needs time to develope some of those skills some people are all ready giving to him.
uh wrong again. If Team USA thinks he can play the point for them, surely he can play the point for the blazers…
btw Brooks his first year was also a poor shooter and worse decision maker. Gee what a difference a couple of years in the NBA makes.
I think the Bayless/Roy combo will be excellent. I also like the idea of Blake/Fernandez leading the second unit. It’s a no-lose situation
Brooks shot the 3 regularly his first season, proved he had some point skills to work with his first season, and proved his first season he was capable of playing against larger NBA players.
Aside from one standout scoring night, Bayless really didn’t do anything close to what Brooks did his first season.
Heck Panama, I hear Allen Iverson is available!
well I am sure if Dwight said Iverson is gold you would be the first with your pom poms saying what a great idea it is
actually f5 brooks and Bayless first year stats are more comparable than not. Look it up
Rondo is an incredible passer, and Parker isn’t bad either. They both have high basketball IQ’s. Bayless doesn’t compare to either one of them.
I know he can get to the rim in Summer League, but Bayless’ outside jumper still doesn’t look great. If he wants to floor to open up for him on the NBA level, he needs to improve his shooting from distance.
KneeJerkNBA the only problem with all those guys you are comparing him to is they could all hit open jumpers with ease. Bayless jumper is worse then Sergios, and thats bad.
Maybe people get on you in the comments because there is never a positive word that comes out of your mouth.
Keep drinking that Bayless kool-ade…. LOL !!
I would bet that he will be gone by the start of the season.
The comments I don’t like are the ones that imply this is Jerryd’s fault. Think of it from his point of view: You spend years preparing to be one thing, you get the big break and land on the big stage, but they won’t let you do your thing.
Reminds me of comedians I’ve heard of who finally go on Letterman, etc…and the day of the show they ask for some big changes in routines that have been working in the clubs for years.
This isn’t on Jerryd. He would have been better off going to a team that was looking for what he does. I hope he sticks around in the league the way Telfair has.
It’s not his fault.
Wah wah wah, boo freaking hoo. It’s not his fault. :’(
Bill,
I agree that he’s working hard and that his difficulties playing point guard are not “his fault,” though it’s hard to say whose fault they are.
These blog entries center around what’s coming out of Jerryd’s MOUTH, however. THAT is his fault, and it suggests some major character defects.
I have felt the same all along. I think we need an upgrade a point or next year will be fun and everything but we’ll be lucky to get out of the first round.
Point guards that can both pass and score are very rare in the NBA. It was worth a try to see if Bayless could become one of these guys.
Which comes back to who do you go get now? The problem I see is you either have to go for an old guy (like Steve Nash), or go young (like Ricky Rubio) and start over. Both don’t seem optimal, but I am not seeing any guys with NBA experience that are available and a big enough step up.
How about Ramon Sessions or Ray Felton? Not sayin’, just askin’.
It is hard to believe the Blazers won’t make a trade for a point guard – before the preseason starts.
He doesn’t need to be a ‘world-beater’ but a true point guard which means he will be shorter than the Blazers like and not the shooter they think he ought to be. But if he has speed and intelligence to go with his ability – ala Aaron Brooks – then he will fit in fine with this team.
What is clear today however is the Blazers are going to have to trade either Batum or Fernandez – and possibly Bayless – to get this ‘special’ person. I believe the Blazers are in the process of doing this as we read and write about these things.
I agree with Dwight on this one. I too have been accused of being harsh w/Bayless in some posts and not giving him the time I preach to give Oden. There is some validity in that last point. The diff between Bayless and Oden tho are many. The main one is Oden is a #1 overall lottery pick. A player pretty much given a national consensus to being one to succeed. You always give a top overall pick time to develop. Bayless deserves time as well but how much ? No one is ever expecting Bayless to be a possible elite PG. So if you can trade him for an upgrade do you ? my answer is yes. Oden also, unlike Bayless, is not being asked by the Blazers to play a position that his natural skill set does no fit.
“Nate McMillan says Bayless still needs to work on trusting his instincts and letting the game come naturally.”
This is the part of the Bayless transition that is going to take the longest. They are putting him in the PG position where his “natural instincts” (to score first&attack the rim with abandon) must be first processed, then denied. It is obvious when he plays he is doing this. It is why he seems to be “thinking” too much. They are asking him to trust his instincts and let the game come naturally from a position that is un-natural to him and where his instinctive style of play must be denied. If this works it will take time.
The reality of the possibility of it not working is evidenced by Nate in this quote.
“ McMillan is lobbying for general manager Kevin Pritchard to add another point guard so the team can carry three next season “
again- they feel the need for 3 PG’s. More evidence that the teams PG position is expected to be problematic-again. Dwight nailed it. They will go after another PG before the season starts. That pretty much says it all for the here and now of Bayless. The futre ? who can say.
um hat to break it to ya but most nba teams carry 3 point guards
The diff tho is most teams have one starting PG who gets most the minutes, one for sure back up and one practice, stop gap guy. Blazers, most would say, have yet to even solidify a starter. Let alone a backup. How can Oden, LA, anyone work a low post game when there is no one who can even drop a proper entry pass into the post. So the point is during KP’s entire reign the PG position remains problematic. Hat to break it to ya
You see having Blake and Bayless battle it out as a problem, I see it as a good thing.
Bayless is only 20 and played one year of college and one year of NBA. He will only improve and with Roy also have PG capabilities, they could be as good as Dumars/Thomas was…only time will tell
True Bayless has things to work on, but given his youth and experience, he is already ahead of the curve
Once he get confidence in his shot like he did in college, The whining will cease
All valid points. It is true that I don’t want to see Blake and JB battle it out. For I don’t really believe either one is a true starting PG. Within the context of the Blazers roster I’d have to say you are right it is best to let them battle it out. Tho I am quite certain Blake has little reason for concern. I just hope KP&Nate continue to explore options like the Hinrich deal to try and upgrade and solidify the PG position so every year is not just a hope&a prayer that one of the 3 is going to step up and be the man at the point.
I definently agree with you that the Blazers should continue to explore their options, especially at pg. I see young players like Batum and Bayless still a season or two away and realize there is a chance that one or both will be traded away…
If that helps the team I am all for it
Bayless isn’t a point guard. He’s a short shooting guard.(Also, I just want to point out that this post would have been more impressive had my regular editor been available).
Come on folks, the Las Vegas Summer League just a few steps above rat-ball. It’s not like anybody is going to show great point guard skills in that format. I think the team put way too much of an emphasis on the whole make or break aspect of his point skills. I mean the guy is 20 years old! Let’s get him on the court with 4 other players that can shoot and finish and then see what happens. Because speed, power and the ablity to get by your man draws the double teams, and double teams lead to easy buckets for beasts like Oden and Aldrich.
bayless seems like a younger leandro barbosa to me. in time, he can learn to shoot the 3 more consistently, and play together with rudy and roy.
Dwight,
I don’t see you as a fan getting down on this player or that player based on what you see on a particular day. I see you more as a long term thinker, a broad frame of reference kind of guy. You attempt to look up ahead and see what the effects of this behavior or that statement are going to be in the long run.
Predicting the future is not easy, and it is not always possible to be accurate. Unknown factors come into play. When I read what you think, I usually get where you are coming from, and what future concerns you are trying to point out, but often times I see other events that could come into play as well, and cause things to work out in a better fashion than what your “prediction” may indicate.
Bayless is a perfect example. Some very positive things are known about him. Will those positive attributes end up being a “fit” on a championship level team? Odds are always against it with an individual player, but… Ron Harper was a poor shooting, score first, 2 guard in his early years. He ended up switching positions and playing “point” on some championship teams. Who would have thunk it? Oh, Phil Jackson.
Reading between the lines and predicting outcomes is part of what makes this whole exercise worth while, but it is not going to happen without people having their differences.
I try underestimate the fact that Kevin Pritchard is saying that Bayless can work out at the point. If it does not happen then Nate McMillan will have had a major hand in Bayless’ failure as well as a hand in the egg that will be dripping from Pritchard‘s face.
Coach Nate should be held accountable for player development. He is just as responsible for what happens as his young players are and ought to take praise or blame right along with his players. Bayless, Oden, Fernandez, Outlaw, Fry, Rodriguez, etc. are under the coaching staff’s tutelage; I wish the players would be faced with less individual criticism, and the coaches be called more to task for how they are utilizing the individual players talents.
Dear Dwight,
Is this kinda the same thing as how you aren’t biased against Nate even though you bad-mouth him at every available opportunity?
Just askin’
Thanks,
Dwight R. Liar
P.S. Summer league is important!!!!!111
We have some people on here who are really sensitive to criticism. It’s not always “bad-mouth[ing]…at every opportunity” when you just state a disagreement or observation.
Wow that was tough to edit.
Bayless is a PG on defense and an SG on offense. We’ve known this since he was drafted. He can develop some PG-like offensive skills and become a combo guard on offense, but he will need to be primarily a scorer on offense while defending opposing PGs. Fortunately for the Blazers, Brandon Roy is an SG on defense but possesses many PG-like offensive qualities. Thus, if Bayless shows he can adequately defend PGs, bring the ball up and occasionally spell Roy in terms of ball-handling duties, hit a jumper and get to the rim, he can be an excellent backcourt partner for Roy even if he never becomes a true PG. Bayless is a ways away from that– he’s overly aggressive and not particularly smart on D, and he still needs to show he has his jump shot back (it was solid at Arizona but abysmal last year)– but he at least has a shot in this league.
Nobody ever considered him a true PG– that’s not what he is.
Very solid post. Now, if Bayless scores 10 ppg this next year, will he hold out for a max contract?
Dwight, I agree with what you have written. Bayless hasn’t shown the ability to set teammates up and I’m not sure that he ever will. I think for him to be successful for the Blazers he needs focus on his outside shot. Once he’s a threat from distance he can play alongside Roy. Does Roy need a traditional pg alongside him or does he need someone who’s always threat to score? If Bayless can minimize his mistakes and add fix his broken shot he could potentially take a lot pressure off of Roy. I think the Bayless/Roy combo has better potential than the Rudy/Roy combo because Bayless has the ability to guard the opposing pg.
Blake isn’t a threat, doesn’t really make his teammates any better but Nate likes him because he doesn’t make mistakes so the Blake/Roy combo is likely to continue for another year.
I think the big question isn’t whether or not Bayless is this or that, but whether or not he fits with the other players that aren’t going anywhere, and I think that answer is “No.”
Think about the rest of the expected starting lineup for the forseeable future: Oden, Aldridge, Webster/Batum/?, Roy, and _________. The only one that benefits from Bayless’ game is maybe Webster.
Oden and Aldridge are/will be beasts down low, and need a PG to feed them. Roy is a master creator, and needs a PG to get out of the way and be a spot-up threat. Webster could probably use a guy who drives and dishes.
It’s not that much unlike the Frye situation: nice guy, decent player, not the skill set we need for the position we need to fill.
Blake has terrible court vision. When he’s at his best, Blake is actually playing the 2 — not sure if anyone shares the obsevation.
Others have pointed out the Blake is essentially our low risk, low reward option. I tend to agree. He has horrible court vision though and cannot push a break.
Bayless is what he is.
But until we get a real pg, Roy’s our point.
Yeah I would tend to agree. He was at his best hitting 3′s this season. I just haven’t seen much in the way of passing or reading the court or even running the fast break effectively.
Blake is our John Paxson. Will Bayless be our Vinnie Johnson or our Robert Pack? This would be nice to find out since I highly doubt if Rudy will be on our team for two or three more years.
Well, we let a true point guard get away cause he did not play the McMillan way. Sergio could see the floor. sure he was a bit wild at times but he was a kid. I will be interested to see what happens to him. He may never develop. but we should have tried him.
Get my history right here, but was Terry Porter a true point guard when he arrived, not the way I remember. seems like he was a forward in college, or dos my memory fail me? Don’t matter, he became one naturally.
Lefty,
If I remember right, Terry Porter was a small forward in college. But, this was because he played for a division III school (very small).
Now, I was very young so I can’t say for sure, but I think Porter was a pretty natural fit as a pg, and almost made the Olympic team (but Bob Knight was coach and took Alford, and who at the time could argue with that?).
Porter racked up a lot of assists. Perhaps more importantly, he was an UNSELFISH player, which may be the #1 point guard skill that Bayless lacks.
PS I think Knight had just won the NCAA championship with Alford as his point guard.
I was watching a replay from 1990 finals, and when the Blazers spelled Drexler, Danny Young played point and Adelman played Porter at PG.
I was just amazed at how big and fast Porter was.
Well, we let a true point guard get away cause he did not play the McMillan way. Sergio could see the floor. sure he was a bit wild at times but he was a kid. I will be interested to see what happens to him. He may never develop. but we should have tried him.
Get my history right here, but was Terry Porter a true point guard when he arrived, not the way I remember. seems like he was a forward in college, or dos my memory fail me? Don’t matter, he became one naturally.
i kinda skimmed the comments so pardon if i missed it. but bayless is monta ellis. he needs to be sort of an instant offense 6th man ala ginobili for the spurs. he’s not the answer at pg but he is the answer for a nasty 2nd unit that comes on and doesn’t let up for the scoring. i think he’s solid, he’s tough and super athletic and is fearless going to the rim. i think he’s monta-like and i think that’s a good thing. now sign andre miller and crash the western conf finals.
Ginobli is a great playmaker who sees the court very well. He does score a lot for the second unit, but he’s also the floor director for them.
I do think his upside is a lot like Monta Ellis. I don’t think that is what the Blazers need in a starter. We have quality bigs that need to be set-up. Those bigs also clog up the middle, so our PG needs to be able to draw and either dump or kick-out. If he goes to the hoop, there will be someone there.
I like Bayless, but the comparisons to Monta Ellis seem very overblown to me. Monta has demonstrated an ability to put up some huge numbers – we just haven’t seen from Bayless yet. He can score, sure, and I think that he probably will turn into a decent 6th or 7th man, but I don’t see how anyone can say he projects as a truly elite scorer – at least not yet.
Panama — did Brooks and Bayless have similar minutes played? I was under the impression Brooks played a whole hell of a lot more than bayless. Bayless barley got minutes, and if you subtract the 20+ game he had, his average scoring would be much less I wold think.
Yep, this is the truth. Bayless is basically blind while he’s on the way to the hoop. Painful to watch. And he can’t shoot a lick, either. In fact, if you watch him shoot foul shots, his form is terrible. His holds the ball off-center and down in his palm, then kind of flicks his shot, rather than lofting it like you’re supposed to.
This is what you get for being too “confident” (i.e., uncoachable), I suppose…
Dwight – Would you have been able to be this honest when you were actually writing for a local paper? Would there have been any risk of being shut-out by players or the team for this kind of inside criticism?
JB is my Cuz. I love seeing him play ( only a few times since I live in boston) he is a Bayless he will be a great point guard… Just please give him time!!!