My goodness… why Oden did not play much
You may have missed this, from the notes following Jason Quick’s game story Friday in The Oregonian:
For the second consecutive game, Oden didn’t play in the fourth quarter. He played 13:23 against the Nets, finishing with two points and one rebound. “Pick and roll defense,” McMillan explained. “We just couldn’t contain them with a big lineup. When we had matchup of Greg trying to guard Devin. … It was a tough matchup.” …
There it is. A tough matchup? Well, duh. Honestly, this really makes no sense to me. So Oden is being held responsible for defending point guards on pick and rolls? This is actually the way they WANT to defend the pick and roll — they’re going to have their “bigs” switch off to the guards? It’s not some sort of foul up? If that’s the case, I’ll say what I said yesterday — trade him. Centers can’t guard point guards, even lousy ones — let alone the best ones. It’s just not going to work.
If you’re switching every screen through a whole game, you have to go out and get an entire team of quick guys around 6-foot-7 or 6-8. They could switch all positions and you might make it work. Rick Adelman actually did this with his bench at times. Switch everything — particularly off late-game, in-bounds plays when the defense doesn’t have time to react and take advantage of it.
Seriously… Oden doesn’t play because he’s not able to defend one of the quickest point guards in the league? This is going to be a REAL problem. Obviously, Shaq in his prime couldn’t have played here, either.
Coaches, NBA, Trail Blazers | Dwight Jaynes | January 16, 2009
Dwight Jaynes, Greg Oden, Jason Quick, Nate McMillan, NBA, Portland Trail Blazers
Dwight, perhaps you’ve come upon an overly optimistic attitude, sitting there with your feet perched over the rail, watching the river. The American retired version of Zen like contemplation may lead you to overlook Oden’s poor play. I could be wrong, but I wonder if you could spare a moment from your deeper thoughts to ponder whether Oden’s play merits optimism about his future. Didn’t one of the Lopez twins outplay our number one pick last night? Was Lopez not the better center? I fear that at best Oden will prove mediocre and that the Blazers should give consideration to a trade now while the market will provide some return, like a Lopez.
As fun as it was watching Bayless penetrate and create much needed interior play, it was equally disturbing seeing our prized center on the bench…Pryzibilla also sitting was perplexing as well
Yah I know we won the game…against the nets
After the all star break, the NBA changes…teams start getting very serious and there is an emphasis on defense. Portland will no longer be allowed the freedom of shootng 3′s and other jump shots. Inside play becomes more and more golden and we are running away from that…
If were gonna go this way we should have drafted Durant. We are wasting Oden’s prime talent
Dwight-
I had to ponder your previous posts and think hard on them. I am sure Bobbi W will say his usual ignorance, but I am of the same thought as you. I really thought Oden had turned the corner against Chicago and then it’s like he is being punished for being 7 ft tall. Joel really didn’t even play that much either and was effective on the boards. Small ball can win in the regular season but it is not that effective in the playoffs. I am happy with the win last night but the Blazers may be losing the war so to speak. How much are they losing down the road by not biting the bullet and playing the big fella.
Bayless continues to show if given minutes he can be effective. I don’t think he will explode every night but he does some really nice things on the floor.
I can’t, for the life of me, figure out why the Blazers switch seemingly each and every pick. Even the picks that are poorly set and would be easy to avoid are switched.
WRV, Your negative points about Oden speak greatly to the fact that we don’t play him enough.
“Didn’t Brook Lopez outplay Oden last night?” Brook Lopez played 33 minutes…Oden’s various stretches of play totaled to 13 minutes. How can you even compare that? If there is one thing we DO know about Oden right now, it’s that his play correlates with his confidence. Only getting five additional minutes after starting a basketball game is not going to give ANYONE that confidence.
I also think it’s ridiculous how you think we should trade Oden because you “fear” he might not be great. I’m not saying he’ll be as good as billed, but the only way we are going to “know” (instead of fear or think) how good he is is if we play him more. Dwight is totally right on this point. That said, I think Oden is doing fine for his first year and there is obviously no way he will be traded.
The amazing thing is, this team is all about creating your own shot on iso’s or launching long range jumpers. With the emergence of Bayless, it will become more a part. I’m not sure why a guy like KP, can watch the games and feel the need to keep players like Sergio, Rudy and Oden around. These guys are team ball players, and will not work in Nate’s offensive “system”. Let the guys go….Trade them for one-on-one style players, and allow Nate receive even more praise for his coaching. My god, he actually turned Rudy Fernandez into a 3 point spot up shooter in a matter of months.
You’re right Dwight, the blazers still don’t know how to play with Oden. Not many coaches or players have to build a system around a strong big man anymore, its obvious the team doesn’t know how to protect him on defense on the wing and feed him on the inside on offense consistently.
Our expectations are still too high for this team though. With Brandon leading the team feels and usually acts like a veteran team, but it is not. This is a young team. One more veteran in a key position (small forward probably) could really help this team. That guy should be Outlaw, but its not and won’t be. Perhaps Webster will be the guy when he returns, he has grown mentally and his head seems well put together in interviews at least this year.
13 minutes, 2 points, and only 1 board….. Can you say bust…..
Perhaps Mr. Oden has an injury or he’s in the doghouse?
The excuse seems beyond belief. Something is up…
Man, I couldn’t agree more. I am getting sick of watching our poor strategy on the pick and roll. At first I thought the players just sucked at defending it, but it has become clear that this is Nate’s strategy. Someone tell Nate to watch some tapes of how other team defend our pick and rolls and take notes.
We need to fix this NOW!
The trade him was an absurdity to highlight the point. I think it is rather amazing that Coach K added Nate to his staff to coach defense, in particular the pick and roll. One of the problems that may be something to deal with is that Greg’s legs will not let him be consistent during a span of several games in a few days. He seems to slow a little and that is what makes him seem to lumber. He still needs time to get those legs underneath him. Changing lineups to match the situation is not that big of a deal. At the start of the season one of the strengths of this team was it’s versatility, and when Nate adapts and sits his bigs it is now a problem. That is why Portland has a long team, just for situations like last night.
Bobbi W,
Everyone who has read your posts is now dumber for having done so. You are drowning in a sea of ignorance. Bobbi there are people on this blog who can give you an intellectual life preserver if you would only but reach out.
Rikki Bobbi,
I have been right about Oden all along and you know it… So take off your blinders and rose colored glasses… The truth shall set you free. TBI was sold a bad bill of goods with Oden, pure and simple.
Bobbi,
Explain the 11 double doubles, explain why Nate puts him in poor situations for him to have success? Explain why you can’t acknowledge that he is recovering from a major knee injury. Explain how taking a year off will retard your play. Explain how I have been consistent in both criticism of him (lack of emotion etc) and yet will acknowledge his success. Explain why you act like a scorned woman in regards to your feelings towards Greg. You really bring no new insight other than the same thing everyday. I openly welcome a response from you Bobbi
Dwight, I couldn’t agree with you more about Oden needing to play more. When Oden is in the game, I see no reason why he has to switch out out and guard the players on the pick and roll. When he is on the court, he draws a great deal of attention. When Joel is in there, people switch off on him.
It is so frustrating to watch this guy sitting on the bench for long periods of time. John Canzano is an idiot. If he thinks this team’s future is better with Joel than Greg, that proves it.
It amuses me that anyone thinks Lopez outplayed Greg in head to head play. The only time Brooke scored when Greg was in the game was when Sergio or Bayless (very rare in Bayless’s case) got blown past by Harris and Greg had to try to halt his penetration (leaving Lopez open for about a 15-17 foot jumper) or when the guards wouldn’t fight through pick and rolls and Greg had to switch and Lopez just ran past a guard for a layup or a dunk.
The times Greg took it into Lopez he scored and drew consecutive fouls. Of course we only did this three times (Greg’s only other shot attempt came when the guards, again, gave him the ball with three seconds left on the shot clock and he was forced to take a 12 foot jumper hey good job guards).
Nate is pretty much screwing up Oden with his horrible offensive and defensive sets. I can’t believe Pritchard will let this last past a year and Nate will then be gone.
It is really hard to watch Greg being wasted on almost a nightly basis. I agree trade him because Mr. Sonic will never use him correctly.
Let’s see…. Oden played 1 and only 1 year of college ball at a school where he was not the focus of the offense…. Hyped by an agent to the sports media as next greatest center…. Sports media bought in hook line and sinker ergo, TBI bought in hook line and sinker as they were desperate to get a big man and win back the fans…. Well here we are today…. A first pick of the first round who for all intents and purposes has become a bust…. But please keep the excuses coming of ” Give him time, he had major surgery and was out a year, Nate won’t play him” etcetera, etcetera, etcetera………. Time to move on from Oden and focus on the rest of the team who has such a wealth of talent, sans Oden.
Can we trade Mike Rice who is an idiot, all he does is rip on Sergio’s shortcomings and praise Blake like he is the second coming of John Stockton.
Just once I would like to hear Mike Rice rip Nate for his team’s shoddy defense and offensive execution.
I’m convinced Whitsitt is purposefully trolling just to get people upset. To try to say that coming off of microfracture is just an excuse shows either a clear intent to troll or a baffling amount of stupidity.
Carrie,
You make the standard accusatory ” Troll ” statement because I do not buy into the Oden hype and fall into lockstep with the kool-ade drinking Oden sheeple ???
It is ok to have a differing opinion….
NEWSFLASH: paying attention to trolls assures their return.
Ignoring them is the only remedy.
(That, and blocking their IP’s doesn’t hurt.)
“Carrie,
You make the standard accusatory ” Troll ” statement because I do not buy into the Oden hype and fall into lockstep with the kool-ade drinking Oden sheeple ???
It is ok to have a differing opinion….”
That isn’t why I classified you as a troll. I classified you as a troll because you make blanket statements and brush off true facts as excuses.
To try to suggest microfracture surgery isn’t something that takes a year to overcome is well to be quite blunt, dumb. Every player that has come back from micro-fracture tells you it takes at least a year AFTER returning to get complete trust in your knee again. Plus to re-learn your basketball timing. Keep in mind these players also had the ‘luxury’ of actually playing against NBA talent before their surgeries. Greg went from college to major surgery with a year off then to playing against NBA men.
He’s essentially overcoming two obstacles instead of just one, playing in schemes (offensive and defensive) that highlight his weaknesses and do nothing to help his strengths (infact it hinders a lot of the team and the only reason it occasionally looks okay is because Roy is incredible but Nate rides him too much and it will break him down eventually), and he has multiple teammates that stand flat-footed and don’t get rebounds that he tips out.
You complained about Oden’s lack of rebounds last night and the night before so I’ll ask you to do this. Watch the game when he’s in and who is in with him: He has two men on him trying to prevent him from rebounding and he still manages to tip it up and out and towards his teammates. However, Batum is usually the only one whoever stays and tries to get the rebound. Travis, Blake, and even Roy sometimes stand flat-footed as their man runs by them and gets the rebound. I don’t put LaMarcus in this category because I’m 99% positive he has been instructed to streak the floor instead of fighting for rebounds in most situations because he is the fastest big-man on the team and one of the fastest in the league.
So teams double Oden on the box-out and hold down one arm (they rarely get called for a foul on this) because they know the majority of his teammates are not assisting him in getting rebounds. If people like Travis could learn how to box out their man then they’d only leave one guy on Greg and he’d have better numbers in the box-score (please stop depending on box-scores to assist you in evaluating players).
I’m all for criticizing players and their short-comings. I don’t see this as hate and I think as long as it is constructive it shows we all just want the team to win. However it seems to me you’re purposefully being obtuse or just drinking hater-aide (the bust comments etc) to counter-act what you call kool-aid and rose-colored glasses.
Take a time to watch and see why it is such a horrible idea to have your guards switch on picks to leave your rookie big-man (coming off a surgery that takes time for him to learn to trust his knee again) on extremely fast point guards (what did they think was going to happen against Harris if they switched?), and why having Oden get the ball at the top of the key instead of having him fight for position is a bad time.
Last night when Oden was in the post he drew four fouls in his limited time posting. After Lopez got his third foul in the third quarter we never went into Greg again despite Greg being the one drawing fouls on Lopez.
Nate has long had a history of conceding matchups to the other team instead of dictating his own. Go fine the article on the Oregonian where he concedes matchups to Jay Triano and the Raptors the game Martell came back. He said if the Raptors went small we’d go small, and if the raptors went big we’d go big.
This is against a rookie, interim head-coach with a team with an awful record.
While I agree it is fine to have any opinion you want when talking about Oden’s play, he is simply too young and too inexperienced to be called a bust. That designation can’t be put on a player until he has had AT LEAST 4 years in the league, and sometimes even that can be too early.
Carrie,
bobbi is a flamer, a troll etc, he can’t argue logic I kinda agree that he is an instigator. I do enjoy rational discussion but Bobbi is just incapable.
BOBBI W, YOU ARE DEAD TO ME. Carrie I would urge you and your commonsense to not waste time on her any longer.
Bye Bobbi
Do any of you fine folks even watch Oden play with objectivity ??? You are so desperate in having Oden succeed, you are blind to the facts. He is not nor will ever be a Shaq, a David Robinson,etc….. Quit making excuses for poor ol’ Greg.
Man I get back from a week long bender and all hell has broken loose.
I think the best advice everyone is to not feed the trolls.
I dunno Dwight. It seems to me Nate might be talking about how Greg didn’t look great on the pick and roll switches once the driving offensive player got past the perimeter defense and into the lane, not that he expected him to be out at the three-point line checking Devin Harris straight up when Rodriguez or Bayless got beat. Certainly the coaching staff is still figuring out the right way to use Oden in conjunction with Roy and Aldridge, but I think it’s a bit early for the “play him or trade him” posts.
I really hope for Blazers sake Greg Oden makes “Bob Whitsitt” look foolish. But then Im sure he would fade off into the distance just like the real one did. If not well then we took a chance and at worse we had a little of the spotlight for a bit.
P.S I wonder if the first part of this artical has much merit?
http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nba/news;_ylt=AoME96GMoAhaPt2SMQzGlra5bZ8u?slug=as-hoopslab_011609
Shawn don’t feed the trolls
Carrie: all that you are accomplishing is creating more incentive.
I was really surprised how bad Oden looked.
At times it is embarrassing how bad he looks,considering he was
the #1 pick,then the next night he looks like a million bucks.
Perplexing.
I’m glad at least one person who has media ties to the Blazers is finally noticing what I’ve been noticing all season. And if switching every pick and roll is what McMillan wants, then get rid of Nate, it’s that easy. He hasn’t done anything to merit the loyalty that we are showing him. Granted our record was better at the beginning of the season than everyone though it would be, but the mediocre execution and piss-poor defense that this team plays is a direct correlation to their head coach.
Personally I think the management needs to sit down with Nate and tell him, “hey, we drafted Greg to use, not to sit on the bench and watch the games.” I mean honestly, I’ll go back to the game against the 76ers. Why, in a blowout, is your rookie center not out on the court at least getting some burn rather than watching on the sideline??? He will never learn anything if the coach does not let him play.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; we will NEVER win ANYTHING with Nate McMillan as our coach. He is mediocre at best as a head coach. As an assistant coach I believe he is good because just look at what the Olympic team guys said about him. But in a head coaching roll he just does not seem like a comfortable fit. I think this needs to be addressed as soon as possible, I really wouldn’t care if they fired Nate tomorrow. We need a coach who will not only challenge these players, but teach them and not be scared to have faith in your young players. Avery Johnson would be the perfect fit for this team; he’s a proven winner as a coach (he coached a fairly young team to the finals), his defensive schemes are lockdown, and his offense is not stagnant and repetitive. Even if it’s not Avery, just get someone who knows how to run an offense from the inside out. Because until that happens, we will continue to be as inconsistent as the rest of the jump-shooting teams in the league.
McMillan is not part of the solution, he’s part of the problem.