Subscribe Feed (RSS)Yes, I’ve been out there in the forefront of this movement for years. Way before the Baseball Group, before the bill in Salem, before David Kahn. All of that. Nobody wants it more than me.
But folks, get a grip. Yes, the fan support for a team here would be wonderful. Everyone in sports would be shocked at how well attended these games would be. I still believe that. We’d have big crowds and nice local TV ratings.
There’s a move behind the scenes going on right now to fly the owner of the Oakland A’s up here to see the site of the post office near Union Station. If he likes it, people will push our Congressmen to get that post office out of there (a move scheduled to be made at some point in the future, anyway) and make way for a new ballpark. Using a combination of the $150 million from the state funding bill and money promised by a tribal casino of $350 million, put that ballpark on the fast track and get the A’s up here.
Yeah, I know the governor has always said he wouldn’t allow that tribal money to be used because the tradeout would be a casino somewhere nearby. But for some reason supporters believe the plan, which includes a floating casino, might get OK’d because of the hard economic times.
Nobody would love that more than me. I could fall in love with the entire concept. But I won’t. Because it’s just not realistic. I think the owner of the A’s will fall in love with the site and with Portland. But as soon as he takes a hard look at the economics up here, he’ll sober up in a hurry.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there’s just no corporate support in Portland. The Blazers sold out every game last season and still lost tons of money. You can’t get sponsorship money or sell signage and really — who’s going to buy all those luxury suites? Nobody. All the street-corner food carts in the world aren’t going to be able to support the thing.
It’s a shame. This is the right place for the A’s. The post office location is the right place for the ballpark. But Portland — right now — is no place for a franchise needing corporate support. Do the math. Check it out.
It really pains me to say it, but it’s just not going to work at this time.
Tags: Dwight Jaynes, major-league baseball, Oakland A's, Portland
sad but true! :>( man that just torques my beak!
Ya, it would be great, but no thanks to the floating casino. What a joke. I’ve been on them before, and trust me, not something you want in your city, or anywhere near it. Also, no thanks to the state funding.
Cam’ron — I don’t want to have to go into the whole thing again, but the funding package from the state doesn’t cost taxpayers — it diverts the state tax payments of the players who play here to help pay for the ballpark. It doesn’t cost players anything extra, either. They’re going to have to pay our ridiculous state taxes anyway.
Sadly have to agree. The corporate presence in this city is just pathetic. It’s really pretty remarkable that we don’t have 15% unemployment, let alone not have support for a MLB ballpark. I’d love to see this happen, but just can’t see how it does.
“If you build it, they will come…” What if the city as a whole takes a leap of faith by bringing a major league team here, might that not attract the needed corporate activity to sustain a franchise in the area? Perhaps the corporate suitors are waiting for the City of Portland to take itself seriously enough before they are willing to take it seriously by investing dollars. Who knows?
I think the “corporate support” is a bit of a red herring. If we actually do field a team with all the support you expect, the corporate support will be there. We have the North American headquarter for Adidas, Vestas, Nike World Headquarters, Iberdrola, a ton on Intel, the largest university in Oregon, and beer companies up the wazzu.
Oakland is a struggling city with an awful ball park, and they have a team.
Oh and by the way, I could cite another recently released survey calling Oregon a highly ranked US business environment, but I would get shouted down by all the people who listen to Lars instead of actually reading facts.
Adidas and Nike couldn’t pump a ton of money into a single team because they wouldn’t want to rattle fans elsewhere. Vestas and Iberdrola are foreign owned alternative energy companies, what is the benefit for them? Have you ever heard of a university sponsoring a professional sports team…
Dwight is right. We just don’t have the corporate friendly tax structure in the Portland area to make this work.
Max,
Do you own a business? Do you have any idea how generous the Portland area tax system is compared to ANY other major city on the West Coast?
I think our biggest problem about landing another pro sports team are that the people who CLAIM to want one are the same people who are actively campaigning to convince the world that it would be a horrible idea.
If you really are an advocate for the idea, maybe the first step is not perpetuating negative stereotypes.
Oregon has one, only one, Fortune 500 company with a headquarters in the state: Nike. The city of Portland has zero.
The region’s focus on livability has been admirable, and Portland is a great place to live. However, it is a terrible place for a young person with any ambition to find a job because there are so few well-paid professional jobs in the city (witness the current unemployment rates). I rather wish local government would make economic development and job creation a bit more of a priority. As Dwight rightfully points out, the lack of large corporations based in Portland is the biggest bar to bringing more major league sports to the city.
The City of Portland’s hostility to businesses is well documented, most famously illustrated in the Columbia Sportswear headquarters debacle.
You mean the mom and pop shops that the ‘keep portland weird’ crowd love so much can’t support big sports?
I guess those “evil corporate giants” might have some value after all right? Too bad they’ve all been scared away or wisely chose other cities to do business in.
Why do people not understand “Keep Portland Weird” and always equate it with hippies? The movement started to keep Walmart out of neighborhoods. To let the Mom and Pops thrive..
Maybe you want to live in a sea of Applebees, Walgreen’s, and Bridgeport Villages…but most of Portland does not.
That is what the suburbs are for.
Besides, I resemble your description, heavily tattooe’d, shun Fuddruckers for the local greasy spoon..do not wear Tommy Bahama shirts and khaki’s with my penny loafers…yuck.
I also work in corporate USA and see nothing evil about corporations…just the sea of vanilla in the suburbs that makes Beaverton indistinguishable from Sandy Utah, or Rocklin California, or Henderson Nevada, or the sea of suburbia, white, bland, stepford folks in much of the country…
I agree with opposition to suburban blandness and prefer mom and pops stores. The problem is that many, many of the KBOO listening “keep Portland weird” folks don’t just oppose suburban blandness on aesthetic grounds like yourself. Their opposition is deeply political and rooted in a facile view of the world in which all things “corporate” are evil. Portland’s hostile business climate reflects the views of many of its citizens.
For the most part, Portland’s lack of corporate giants has been due to consolidation (many Portland-based corporations, from Willamette Industries to Tektronix to Fred Meyer to Freightliner to US Bancorp, etc) getting bought out by out-of-state acquirers, not due to Oregon-based businesses packing up and leaving because taxes around here are too gosh darn high.
Portland also suffers from a poor venture capital presence–not many startups occur around here, and those that do get started up frequently have a hard time getting funding.
But things are much more complicated than right-wing sob stories about millionaires having to pay too much in taxes.
Corporate support is not the end all, be all, but it is a factor.
When they proposed the new A’s stadium for Fremont, the design team attempted to create more “mini-suites” and special seating sections that would cater to smaller businesses in order to address this issue of fewer large corporations. I assume this would be the case in Portland as well (and it will be as long as we have no sales tax and a high income tax).
I think that the obvious location for MLB in 7-10 years will be the Blanchard site, not the post office site. Blanchard will have better access, better infrastructure, and more development potential (facing north, since the Rose Quarter will likely be reconfigured into an entertainment district by then). The post office is already built out, filled with NIMBY’s, and would have worse access.
I don’t know where you got that tip about the A’s owner coming up here but I don’t think there is anything to it especially now that the MLS proposal went through. That guy is a developer so who knows, maybe he’s scoping out the site for other purposes besides MLB.
Maybe I’m the only optimist in the room or I just like a good conspiracy. Is this why Merritt separated the Timbers & Beavers stadium deals? The A’s are one of the smartest run teams in the league and would be a perfect fit for this city. The A’s have always been a gritty overachieving group that would blend well with the Portland scene. I travel to Oakland all the time for work and watch a dozen games in MacAfee/Oakland Stadium a year. That place is awful and attendance has been bad for years. 8 years ago I was in Oakland early September for a friends wedding and went to a game on a perfect Saturday night. The A’s where in 1st place getting ready for the playoffs. The place had maybe 10,000 people in it. Oakland has been struggling to get a stadium deal done for years. If Portland could offer to build a new stadium with the tribe’s money at the Post Office location I think they would jump at it. What do they have to loose? It makes sense for the league to keep the A’s on the west coast too.
Dwight, the same could be said for any new business looking at Oregon as a location. Unless it’s green that is……..
Graham,
I think we have done this already, but this is a common myth about Oregon, so I feel compelled to squash it. Note in the second paragraph is describes Oregon as:
“second lowest effective business tax rate” in the nation.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31763780
Second lowest – that’s pretty good I think. I will also reiterate that as a business owner, I am thrilled to soon be relocating back to Oregon. I am counting the dollars I will save already.
But what does that say about Portland, not Oregon.
Jeremy, this is one of my favorite subjects to discuss, but time just will not allow it today. But for every one example that you can give for Oregon / Portland being business friendly, I could give you at least 10 that would demonstrate the opposite. Good luck to you and your business!
The city of Portland taxes businesses at 2.2% of net income for the privilege of running a business in the city, and Multnomah County levies a 1.45% business income tax on top of that.
On the other hand, Beaverton charges businesses $50 per year plus $8.50 per year per employee for each employee the business employs (for employee number 5 and up), and Washington county has no business income tax.
In which city would you rather locate your business?
DJ~
Do you think a National League team would fare better than an AL team in Portland? Half of Major League Baseball does not make it to the Northwest. To be able to promote players and teams that Seattle can’t should increase the “interest footprint” around the NW for Portland.
On top of this, there would be a better chance to succeed on the field against NL talent, which might draw more corporate interest. The Portland Pirates anyone? THAT’S a cool name next to a gambling boat.
In an ideal world, the NL would move one of its Central teams to the AL West and eliminate that stupid 6-team-4-team imbalance that’s been in place ever since Selig decided his Brewers would be better off in the NL. It totally messes with the schedule . . .
Dwight, nothing to say here, but your wrong. There is plenty support to bring a team like the A’s here to PDX, even coorporate support. The Blazers lost money last year because of bad management, and poor planning, not because they couldn’t get sponsors or sell tickets. Their gross revenue last year was well over $150+ million, which is more than many other teams in the NBA.
Stop perpetuating the myth of “small town Portland”, just because the local political leaders are yahoo’s can don’t care about sports, doesn’t mean the rest of the city and surrounding areas don’t as well.
usmcr3049,
I’ve noticed there are a lot of self-loathing Oregonians on this blog. I wonder where that comes from.
How does Buffalo affford the Bills and sabres then?
larry:
Well, they aren’t doing well right now. They are going to play a portion of their home games in the ROgers Centre in Toronto, Canada, and may end up permantly relocating there. The relocation isn’t likely at the moment, but the possibily of them playing 1/2 their games in each city is more probable.
Too bad… MLB would be way better than MLS.
Dwight – I follow you, and I understand where the money comes from. Thing is, when you are diverting money from the general fund, whether it is from the players or not, you are taking money that could have been spent somewhere else. It’s a touchy issue, and I’m still not sure where I stand on it.
One quick logistical question. Should the A’s move to PDX, where would they play while the new stadium is being built??? No one would pay to watch them in Oakland and the new downtown or Beaverton AAA ball park would not be up to mlb standards?
Cam’ron — I see what you’re saying… but remember you’re only diverting money that wouldn’t be here anyway if you don’t build the stadium. It’s found money.
Dwight,
As a guy who just fought the MLS fight. Save your keystrokes. There are plenty of people in Portland can’t get their hands around this concept.
I think people understood the concept. They also understood that the median MLS player salary is $56,000, and their annual salary cap is $2.3 million. 9% (Oregon’s top marginal income tax rate) of $2.3 million comes to $207,000, which doesn’t pay for two stadia.
As a side note…I was in Oakland recently and listening to local sports talk radio. The city seems resigned to the fact that the A’s will leave…
I recognize the lack of corporate support in Portland. However, I think the biggest barrier to landing the A’s is that the owner has his mind set on moving the team to San Jose. I know, I know. The Giants own the rights to San Jose. However, the league is in the process of taking a serious look at doing something to help the A’s get there. Until that effort is completely dead, no way the A’s have any interest in moving anywhere else. Moreover, I think we’d have trouble competing with some other potential A’s venues – like Sacramento.
By the way, if you think Goose Hollow complains about PGE Park, wait until you hear the yuppies in the Pearl wail over the prospect of putting a big league ballpark in their back yards.
Have you ever been outside a major league ball park during a game? It isn’t a Motle Crue concert. It really isn’t that loud. Real-estate goes up in urban areas where new stadiums are built. Look at AT&E in San Francisco, Safeco in Seattle, Camden Yards in Baltimore, ect, ect. All these ball parks were build in what was once considered a “bad” part of town. I think the residents in the Pearl wouldn’t mind a ball park if they saw an increase in their condo values.
I agree with Marc. I lived near PGE Park and no one I know complained. Besides, its the Pearl District “yuppies” that pack the right field foul beer garden for the games.
I mean, I agree with Jim.
It’s not just the noise, it’s the traffic, parking, etc. Incidentally, I would imagine concerts might be held at such a facility from time to time. But more to the point, your examples are parks built in fairly blighted areas. The Pearl is far from blighted. I think you’d get more objections than you might expect. Still, I like the location and think a guy like Wolffe could pull off a stadium/development project of the sort he had proposed for Fremont – but on a smaller scale.
People wouldn’t drive to a ball park in the pearl district. I have gone to many Giant games and most people take BART. Make the MAX free for all ball games and I wouldn’t worry about the traffic.
I’m not sure you’re right about the neighborhood near Safeco having real estate values going up. The international district is still teeming with crack dealers, and the whole area is pretty rough and industrial.
You could probably get the Oakland Raiders to move as well. You only need to fill 8 home games. Just build AL Davis a billion dollar stadium.
For my personal sanity I couldn’t stomach all the trolls moaning and groaning and complaining on what an idiot the A’s GM Billy Beane is…like they complain about Kevin Pritchard. That dude rebuilds the A’s every season and unloads all the talent for draft picks.
Anybody seen the empty seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium recently? Those were pegged for corporate expense-account buyers. And many high-end restaurants everywhere next to high-end hotels are going broke.
It’s not just a Portland issue. Holier-than-thou hippies are annoying, like holier-than-thou sorts of every stripe, but they hold very little power. High-end taxes are the lowest they’ve been since WWII, corporate profits are a larger portion of GNP related to wages than since that data started being recorded (also right after WWII), and where has that gotten us? Do tax breaks for the powerful really result in “job creation,” AKA investment in new businesses? Where is all that tax-cut money being spent? If you look at the business pages, it’s being invested in gold and other commodities, not stocks . . .
Dwight, you’re the best, but if you’re going to inject politics into your commentary, make it about what your connections in politics say and do, not which side you’d rather we vote for. Good inside info can communicate which politicians are hypocrites and fools without the editorializing . . . as opposed to editorializing on sports, which is what I read you for and deeply enjoy.
if we get the athletics lets change their name to:
Portland/Oregon:
1. Oregon Orcas
2. Portland Panathikos
3. Portland Gladitors
4. Oregon Omipacos
5. Portland Rumrunners
6. Oregon Samurai
7. Athletic Club of Portland Baseball (ACPB)
8. ohhh one of these:
Portland Thunder/Storm/Pride/Pythons/Rosebuds/Lumberjacks/Fire/Buckaroos.
You cannot change the nickname “Athletics”. Way too much history in that name to just toss it aside.
Reverse Jinx, Dwight???