Handing soccer over to the hooligans
Rachel Bachman did a very good job with this story about the selling of soccer to the hooligans and punks of America. She got the money quote from a former commissioner of the MLS:
Forget the kids. The future of Major League Soccer is in young, scarf-snapping, mostly male rowdies, former commissioner of MLS Doug Logan says.
“Soccer audiences at their best have got to be a little dangerous,” said Logan, now CEO of USA Track and Field. “It’s three guys with a beer cursing at the guy on the field. It’s not a family activity.
“If you want a family activity, go to the circus.”
And then there’s these quotes, too:
“There was always this expectation, which has turned out to be fallacious, that as kids who grew up playing soccer as children, as they grow up, they’re going to be fans to go buy tickets for soccer at a professional level,” said Marc Ganis, president of Chicago-based sports consulting firm Sportscorp Ltd. “It hasn’t worked out that way in huge numbers. It just hasn’t.”
When the MLS launched in 1996, a faction of team owners thought the key to success was to attract the nation’s soccer moms and their kids, said Logan, league commissioner until 1999.
“And nothing could be further from the truth,” Logan said. “Team sports is tribal — and, unfortunately, male. In its finest heyday on ESPN, on ESPN2, the audience (demographic) for the WNBA was 71-72 percent male.
“Women don’t turn television sets on to watch stuff except maybe gymnastics, swimming — you know, on an Olympic year — and skating. You can’t force something there that isn’t there.”
A sport that chooses to market itself to people who want to behave this way is asking for some major trouble.
First, you’re not going to have much of a chance, in this country, of ever gaining mainstream acceptance. Second, at some point somebody is going to get seriously hurt or die and then your whole league is going to end up in a courtroom trying to prove it didn’t encourage the very behaviors that caused the death.
And losing a lawsuit like that, which you would, could shut your whole league down.
Soccer | Dwight Jaynes | July 5, 2009
at some point somebody is going to get seriously hurt or die and then your whole league is going to end up in a courtroom trying to prove it didn’t encourage the very behaviors that caused the death.
The WWE has been doing business with the same demographic for years. Watch any Monday Night RAW event and tell me how the patrons in the arena are any different than the folks in Section 107. They’re not.
Awww crap…it ate my comment…
The NFL has been skating on the edge for years as well. HBO’s Real Sports did a great piece either last year or two years ago on the culture of overconsumption at NFL games. It’s in every stadium and it’s an epidemic. The NFL has a “policy” they can hide behind, but in the end something is way more likely to happen there than at an MLS game. There are just more fans.
The frustrating thing about the article was Paulson was still trying to sell MLS as a family event. It’s not. It’s an open-air bender for twenty-somethings. Just like a WWE event. Just like an NFL game.
I wouldn’t argue that the patrons are the same but I’d argue that the level of behaviors they’re allowed to display is much different. There are no fans bringing smoke bombs into WWE events. The obscenity level is off the charts at soccer these days.
The WWE is constantly marketing itself as family entertainment. Obviously, whether it is or not is a matter of speculation — but at least Vince McMahon isn’t making himself a legal target. But if you have a league that is consciously marketing itself to hooligans and encouraging that behavior by soliticing it and, at the very least, endorsing it by not stopping it, you have serious legal problems if something goes off the tracks.
Again, the people at all the events you mentioned display bad behaviors. But the NFL at least has a policy it can hide behind. That’s the point of the post. When you go out and deliberately market to that demo and encourage bad behavior, you’re asking for legal problems when something goes wrong. It may fly a lot of places where people don’t live in an atmosphere of litigation over the tiniest of things. What goes unpunished other places in the world gets you sued in this country. And for big money.
And you know what, as soon as one of these owners openly concedes his MLS team isn’t a family event, his business is going right down the toilet. And by the way, the NFL isn’t for “twenty-somethings.” They can’t afford it.
And really Bean, the ultimate reason for the post is that in little old naive Portland, the city fathers and all the do-gooders DO think it’s a family sport. They don’t go to the games, so they don’t realize what a nasty atmosphere it is for kids — or they wouldn’t be running baseball out of town for soccer.
“some point somebody is going to get seriously hurt or die and then your whole league is going to end up in a courtroom trying to prove it didn’t encourage the very behaviors that caused the death.
And losing a lawsuit like that, which you would, could shut your whole league down.”
i have yet to hear of any serious injuries during mls/int’l games in the US. yes the fans maybe rowdy but so are nfl & nba fans…anyonr rcall the Palace incident…stick to covering the nba
I’ve been to several Steelers vs Browns games… far worse than anything the Timbers Army is doing.
kill the MLS now
I still can’t believe we’re getting soccer before NHL or MLB. What a joke. I’ll just keep watching the Blazers and call it good.
Talking about that article that Dwight commented on, I would like to see more track and field on TV, especially the throwing events. They get absolutely no press. My wife is a track coach and former college athelete, so it’s always a real treat for us when it does get televised, but that’s not nearly often enough. Just my two cents.
NBA fans are NOT rowdy. especially compared to football fans (that goes for college or pro). I can’t speak for hockey fans cause I haven’t been to an NHL game…MLB fans aren’t bad either. I think soccer is one of the most boring sports ever created though so if I was forced to sit through however long those matches last (why does the clock count UP?) I’d probably be lobbing smoke bombs too.
the palace incident was a perfect storm that happens once in a lifetime. it was started because a fan threw a beer on one of the worlds craziest athletes. NFL fans regularly throw batteries at opposing teams. Have you been to a blazer game? if someone started shouting the F word everyone would turn and stare at him or security would probably talk to him if he was visibly intoxicated. thats like a regular occurance at a football game. I’ve seen mothers holding babies in their arms scream obscenities at referees at a duck game.
I don’t know what exactly it is that causes fans of soccer and the NFL to behave differently than other fans (except the boredom factor in soccer and maybe the cheap accessible alcohol in tailgating that comes with football). I just know that its different.
Typical soccerphobia. Pathetic.
Teen grandson coming to stay a few days with us. We made a list of things we might do. We are considering a Beaver game. I did not even check the soccer schedule cause it will not go on list. Son took his boys to a Sounder game. I
could not believe his report of the
rowdy fans and the language.
Dwight: a poor commish who was fired speaks for MLS in how the sport “chooses to market itself”?? come on … you are brighter than that. this made a good headline but who cares what doug logan thinks? read merritt paulsen’s interview … this is far from how soccer markets itself.
and what’s more how can you make any informed opinions when you never come to games? were you there vs seattle? i was. and so were a ton of families having a grand time.
this is a piss poor post. you are better than that.
and how many people get ejected at blazers or seawhawks games? you have an old fashioned opinion and are not open minded enough to even get a first hand experience
Quite frankly, this is BS. A couple of thoughts:
1) What major American sports league doesn’t market itself to 18-34 year old males? That’s who sponsors are after. It doesn’t imply “punks and hooligans”. Talk about a double standard.
2) Doug Logan isn’t even affiliated with MLS. He hasn’t been since 1999. It’s like quoting Bob Whitsitt on the latest Blazers trade, a real up-to-date source.
3) Quoting a self-promoting “sports consultant” hardly qualifies as a source either. Has this guy even worked with MLS? The article doesn’t even say, so the answer is probably no…
4) In short, it’s a non-story, which has been spun to sound negative to generate some kind of newsworthiness.
I’m not impressed, but I give you credit Dwight. If there is a negative story about soccer anywhere in the USA, we’ll be sure to hear about it from you.
I tried to get rowdy at a baseball game but fell asleep
Dwight your really showing your age with this piece. Sour grapes
If I were you I would spend more time trying to help relocate the beavers. We know soccer has a home in PGE
Oh btw did you see last week when the Seattle Sounders of the MLS came to town to play a cup match? 16,000 plus and there wasn’t an empty seat in the house!. It was great to see our own ex world cup Keeper Kasey Keller (Portland Pilots) play again…
Funny, there was no riots just alot of people cheering for their teams. Seemed like alot of families enjoyed themselves Dwight. Did you go? Have you ever?
Yes the winds of change continue to blow…
“and how many people get ejected at blazers or seawhawks games?”
thats the whole point. at those games, people get ejected. the post is saying that in MLS, behavior that would merit ejection in other sports is actually encouraged in soccer because apparently they want the stands full of UFC type fans. hey, whatever makes money I guess.
Timbers Army seems deadset on emulating British soccer hooligans, which is fine. I’ve got no problem with it, but don’t try to act like the violence that occurs in the stands at soccer matches around the world, incidents that make the Ron Artest throwdown look like a friendly game of thumb war, aren’t eventually to be emulated here as well. In fact, that’s probably the only way the MLS will know they’ve actually got a foothold in the American sports market.
At a certain age, all 18 to 34 year olds turn into “punks and hooligans”.
Now get offa my lawn, kid.
Panama says:
July 5, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Oh btw did you see last week when the Seattle Sounders of the MLS came to town to play a cup match? 16,000 plus and there wasn’t an empty seat in the house!.
Really ????
What about the top 12 rows around the whole stadium that were covered with a dark green tarp…. Keep trying to spin it… LMAO !!!!
I have season tickets for the Blazers, Seahawks, and Timbers… I have seen and heard far worse at Blazers and Seahawks games than I ever have at a Timbers game or any soccer match that I have attended in Europe.
Hooliganism is synonymous with live sporting events. There will always be at least a couple idiots in the crowd who are either way to drunk or aggressive for their own good. People try to make examples of European soccer hooligan likes its so scary and awful, but worse things have happened at American baseball and football events.
Dwight, you decined my offer of attending the Timbers/Sounders match last week. You even thought it clever to throw in a little jab of the tickets selling out before you could get to the stadium… Guess what, thats what Ticketmaster is for! And, the tickets DID sell out!
This just proves to me you are not willing to do some research before you go ahead and start tossing out criticisms. You have also proven that you just don’t understand the game and the culture around it, and you let your latent xenophobia get the better of you with this post.
Here’s an idea… Why don’t you actually attend a Timbers match for once and write a blog post about it. There is an international friendly match against Burnley FC of the English Premier League on Saturday 7/25. Come check it out… And, in the meantime, don’t try to act like you know anything about soccer, because you have plainly demonstrated right here that you don’t!
Hooligans??? WTF?? Foreign soccer hooligans commit crimes and care (and know) more about confrontation than good football. They are generally working class and these days can’t even get into most high quality team games because the price is so prohibitive. The real action for them goes on outside the stadium they can’t afford to get into– where the real physical threats and harm happen.
Confusing current any US domestic fans with real football hooligans is ludicrous and shows ignorance on the subject altogether. Rowdiness does not equal hooliganism.
How about this one, guys…
Soccer is the sport of the future… and it always will be!!!!
And yeah… i really do need to study up on soccer… it’s SOOOOO complicated… after the ridiculous offside rule that nobody likes, there’s really a lot to understand…
You have to be REALLY savvy about the sport to stand up and yell “(Bleep) you” all game long.
Why do the soccer sheeple keep claiming a sellout, when the top 12 rows around the stadium were blocked off and half of the suites empty ????
Bumpity – Two suites were empty and capacity for events at PGE Park have been capped because anything close to the 20,000 seat “capacity” is beyond what the facility can actually handle and diminishes the the experience. Case in point, the Beavers vs Mariners exhibition back in March 2006. The place was shoulder-to-shoulder and almost unnavigable. If you didn’t really have to go to the bathroom, you were better off staying in your seat.
Bumpity those rows are blocked views for a soccer pitch so they are non-sellable seats…nice try though lol
“How about this one, guys…
Soccer is the sport of the future… and it always will be!!!!”
Soccer is the sport of the present, and has been for a long time. Its just been in the last 30 or so years that America is waking up to this fact.
“And yeah… i really do need to study up on soccer… it’s SOOOOO complicated… after the ridiculous offside rule that nobody likes, there’s really a lot to understand…”
Which is precisely why it is the world’s sport and is called “The Beautiful Game.” … Soccer has the simplest rules, the least amount of equipment required, and is constantly fluid. It is the purest of any team sport.
“You have to be REALLY savvy about the sport to stand up and yell “(Bleep) you” all game long.”
I take it you never sit in the upper-level at Blazers or Seahawks games?
hmmmmmm….. The first time the Mariners came to town in 2002 the Pge Park handled it just fine, likewise when the Womens World Cup played here… So the Paulson minions are attempting to spin again……
This just in…
A rest home in Banks, Oregon has offered the beavers baseball a spot to play in their back lot. Word is they are already worked up for ‘blue hair’ night
bran oatmeal anyone?
How about this one. In soccer play is continuous,
two 45-minute halves. In football it’s 10-15 seconds of play followed by 30-60 seconds of big guys caressing shoulders in a huddle–wow, that’s exciting! Just joshing, football fanatics, I still enjoy watching college football–Go Ducks!
All games attract some A-holes who drink too much and want to get rowdy and a few who want to fight. To suggest that soccer has more of these A-holes in the stands than other sports is nonsense.
I was at a Formula One race and there were guys fighting–but it had nothing to do with the sport, they just wanted to fight. I think the same is true with most hooligans.
My favorite soccer rule, the fact that nobody knows when the game will end. You hit the 90 min mark and then it’s a total crapshoot. Guys are going up and down the field and the only person in the stadium who knows when it’s going to end (including the players themselves) is the ref….what a fantastic way to end a game.
Dwight, I take it you don’t like soccer. The reason Americans haven’t flocked to soccer – even though they played it in their youth – is because pro soccer in the US sucks, plain and simple. You wanna see good footie? Go to Europe or South America. If the teams were good, and if the teams could draw talent away from European leagues, people here would watch. It’s not that people don’t like watching soccer, it’s just a quality issue.
I love the beautiful game, but it’s just lipstick on a pig in the US.
Doesn’t the anti soccer stuff get a little old, Dwight? For years, the NHL has been going down hill because they listened to the American sports media and tried to “clean up” the sport. You look at the fastest growing sport in the US, MMA, and you see where the new money is coming from. Personally, not a big fan of MMA. I prefer the sweet science, but you can’t deny the inroads MMA has made by catering to 18-34 year olds.
The Portland Timbers have done soooooooooo much to ingratiate themselves in the youth soccer side of things. They have marketed themselves to the soccer moms to no avail. The Timber Army has grown so much in the last couple years because of the energy and passion in which they support the teams. Yeah, the language is a bit of a turn off. I choose to use the PG chant sheets when I attend matches. But it is unquestioned that the future of soocer in this country and in this city is with the younger more wild crowd. Kind of the same type of crowd the Winterhawks had in the 80′s. They will spend money on tickets, beer, and hot dogs.
MLB has swept murders underneath the rug. A couple of years ago, an LA Dodgers fan was murdered outside, in front of ATT Park after Giants-Dodgers game. Then just this last year, a Giants fan was murdered in the Dodgers stadium parking lot.
Cue the classical music, and Bob Costas and the sanctity of the game in the 50′s.
Just thought everyone should know – there was an ejection, it was someone from Seattle, and it occurred on the exact opposite end from the Timber’s Army in the Beer Garden. Just something to keep in mind when talking about how violent the Timber’s Army are.
Oh jeesh, another cranky old man yelling “Get off my lawn!”
This argument that soccer fans in America are anywhere near as vulgar, rowdy, or violent as NFL, MLB, or NHL fans is crushed by weight of evidence against it. The jail underneath the old Veterans Stadium, is just one example. I’ve seen much worse behavior at Blazers and Winterhawks games.
Ok, I get thay you don’t like soccer. But why spoil it for those that do? Personally, I think hockey is a barbaric bloodfest, and anyone who starts a fight on the ice should get a multiple game suspension, much less a 5 min. major. However, if people wanted the NHL here, why should I get in the way? I ask the same question of you regarding MLS soccer.
P.S. The fact that you didn’t attend the Seattle/Portland match last week before spouting your opinions is testament to your unprofessionalism as a sports journalist.
Funny, I remember reading this several months ago:
A couple more thoughts on the MLS thing
March 12th, 2009 by Dwight Jaynes
“Everyone reading this knows I’m not a soccer fan — but I don’t begrudge those who are.”
After reading the above article, I need more clarification, as your most recent post stereotyping soccer fans screams that you do begrudge those who are.
Oh my god you guys should have seen it at the Sounders v. Timbers game. Everyone left the stadium bloodied and bruised, barely walking with the devil’s look in their eye from all the swearing.
This isn’t coming from a diehard Timbers army guy but I know one who is a super enthusiast, he’s a first grade teacher.
@ Bumpity “The first time the Mariners came to town in 2002 the Pge Park handled it just fine, likewise when the Womens World Cup played here…”
Really, Bumpity, did you attend either event? Because I went to the Pads-Mariners exhibition in March 2002, and also each game of the WWC. The baseball game was a fiasco. Walking around the concourse was beyond difficult, it was impossible. My wife left in the 2nd inning to go the bathroom and get food and didn’t return until the 5th inning. As for the WWC, they set up additional bleachers and opened up areas down off of the field for bathrooms and concessions, which made it somewhat manageable, but much costlier. Not something you can just whip up for one match.
Actually the WWC was a bit messy too, there were tons of people who missed the beginning of the match trying to get through the gates. PGE is definitely not designed to handle 28,000. 20,000 would be real tough, especially along the west side where the is only 1 exit.
Nice try Dwight. You’ve failed on this one.
I’ve seen on your blog and listened to you on the radio talk about how MLS will be successful here. Who cares about a AAA team? Nobody in Portland does. They barely even run the scores in the Oregonian and the stories they do run are regurgitations of the press releases coming from the Beavers themselves. If the Beavers were worth anything they would have had at least ONE person at City Hall making an argument to keep them in Portland.
The only people who stood up for keeping the Beavers in Portland at City Hall were people who were there for MLS first and keeping the Beavers second. Not a single Beavers fan showed up to do anything.
Also before you go and call an entire group of people hooligans or even insinuate it…you might check out what hooligans are. Hooligans may curse from time to time but they also riot in the streets, have massive fights, require hundreds of police officers, etc…
And bejeebus…”bleep you” at a soccer game is what you’re worried about? Why aren’t you writing blog posts about the “bull s**t” chants going on national television during the playoff games out of every series there was? Maybe complain about when they cut to a coaches mic, or refs mic, or any mic when you hear a player curse or a coach curse. It happens at every single game I watch on TV. What about the chants coming out of the student section down at U of O. They’re clearly audible on the TV and most of the organized insults are far worse than anything you’ll ever hear out of the Timbers Army. You’ve got no problem with any of that or you haven’t at any point so far.
Timbers Army is like the rave kids who take drugs every weekend but get pissed off when the news has reports about them taking drugs every weekend. “No we don’t!”
Give it up, Timbers Army. You guys might not be out there punching people’s lights out, but you would if you could get away with it. It’s in your language and in your gestures. The civility of our culture and laws is what keeps sad pathetic people like you at bay.
I love soccer, but I despise the Timbers Army. They are the posingest of the posers. They’ve already divided the Timbers fan base, and they are proud of it. Soccer will not succeed if the Timbers cater to these people. Timbers Army out!
Seems like a smart marketing strategy. Older Americans don’t like soccer anyway. They didn’t grow up playing it and aren’t going to be the most dedicated fans. Going after a younger, more dedicated demographic seems like the one of the better options for a league that is pretty marginal as it is.
Say no to Timbers Army:
“…They’ve already divided the Timbers fan base…”
This is a total fabrication. This has never happened. We are welcomed by a vast majority of the “Westsiders” in the rich seats.
first of all i do no have any problems with any sports played here in usa, even if football is called soccer only in this country,but don’t invite yourself in soccer world and try to bring the sport down because we do not rip your sports.actually other side of the world don’t even know your sports.soccer is in my blood.it is religion to many people in several countries and you will never understand that.if you have not seen the real hooligans in your life don’t even talk about it.don’t even brag about it.it is very serious in other side of the world.you will never get that unless you are one of them.
first of all i do not have any problems with any sports played here in this country,but do not try to invite yourself in soccer world and try to bring the sport down because we do not rip about your sports.actually other side of the world don’t even care about your sports.soccer is in my blood and it always be.there are billions of people like me who truly care about the sport.it is religion to many people in several countries.which you will never understand that.if you have not seen real hooligans in your life don’t even talk about it.don’t even brag about it.it is very serious on the other side of the world.ps please put me on comment list i would appriciate it////////