Ducks — you’re in a category all of your own
I have to tell you, Oregon Duck fans, you’re a different breed. Most fans of teams can, at least once in a while, take an objective look at their favorite team.
They can see the bad things with the good. See the potential problems. Even make constructive criticism when merited because, really, all of that is part of being a fan. Overall, they’re capable of participating in objective discussions about their favorite team.
But not Oregon fans. At least, not many of them. ANY comments about the Ducks are usually met with extreme indignation, insults and generally grumpy opposition. It’s so predictable it’s funny. I have to tell you, this isn’t coming from just me, either. Others I know who write consistently about college sports will say the same thing.
The feedback from Duck fans is in a class by itself. Which is fine, really. Vent all you want. But I have to tell you, it’s really fun to jerk your chain.
College football, Fans, Oregon Ducks | Dwight Jaynes | May 28, 2009
College football, Dwight Jaynes, Fans, University of Oregon Ducks
Dwight, not quite as much fun as it is to jerk your chain about PGE Park vs the new ballpark plans. Great show last night on “Talk’n Ball”! I changed my mind, it needs to be 3 hours not 2…
one of the reasons that duck fans (myself included) is because all we have here in oregon is the blazers, ducks, and beavers. we have nothing to fall back on and look forward to when things go opposite of the way we want or expect them to. we tend to hang on every event like it was possibly the only thing in our collective realities that has any merit or meaning. i’ve been a duck fan all my life and have learned over time that it is very important to take all this with a grain of salt…things will all work out in the wash. my dad always said that things are never as bad as you think they are and never as good as they could be. the ducks will be fine even if they ruffle our feathers a little bit. i mean after all it is only college football… remember?
Just the Blazers, Ducks, and Beavers?
What about those Timbers! oh yeah, soccer…
Dwight,
This is what’s funny to me. After reading this posting by you, I went back and read the responses to your last Ducks posting and I think most of the responses were very well reasoned.
Most Duck fans believe these transfers are bad for the program in terms of depth and they would prefer these kids wanted to stay here and continue to be Duck football players, but unlike your posting, most Ducks fans do not believe the sky is falling, Chip Kelly is stumbling at every turn failing to do his job, etc.
Do you know how many players have left Tennessee with the hiring of Kiffin? 11
This happens every time there is a coaching change in college football, especially when some of these kids were already homesick or their own dad got fired from the team.
I just don’t get what you expected Chip Kelly to do. He gave Roper a generous backup QB role on a high powered D1 offense, he fired Pflugrad’s dad as coach, and he asked Harper to work harder and adjust to a new position. If those guys aren’t happy with those situations, should he physically handcuff them to the Duck mascot or ruin their chances to play college football anywhere else?
When did it become some red flag for a leader of something to only want people around him that wanted to be there, work hard, and thrive in whatever role they were given?
That’s the gripe from Duck fans to your blog posting and its a valid one. Maybe countering that on your website would be more beneficial to an open debate than just starting a new entry and calling Duck fans crazy.
Argh.
Duck fan here. Yesterday’s criticism was completely warranted. I didn’t think you said anything controversial at all so I didn’t bother commenting.
What’s going on in Eugene has me concerned–especially from a depth perspective. I really hope that the issues are simply individuals making choices and not a big problem with our new head coach connecting with players.
Dwight,
One other thing — this is your personal blog and you can do what you want, but you are also a well known local journalist and many people turn to you as one of their sources for local sports information, including myself. I rarely saw eye to eye with you when you were at the Oregonian but came around more frequently after you moved on to the Tribune. However, I always respected your personal opinions and reasoned arguments whether or not I agreed.
Anyways, I think the downside of blog style writing is it is too easy to quickly post something with limited thought given to it. My problem is you took a few sentences spoken by Chip Kelly and turned it into some impending implosion in Eugene and I think you took his comments completely wrong.
Even though I am a Duck and Blazer fan, I often find myself also defending the Beavers when people try and draw sweeping conclusions based off of a single example or moment.
The Blazers playing an awful 1st quarter in Game 1 against Houston doesn’t make their season a waste, a few weird incidents in Corvallis involving football players doesn’t mean Riley has lost institutional control, the Magic shooting lights out in a series doesn’t mean Cleveland can never beat Orlando again, and Chip Kelly commenting specifically about the departures of a few kids doesn’t mean he wants every player on his roster to be happy riding the pine or will only recruit kids from Oregon, etc. I’m not saying you have made all these arguments, but just giving examples of arguments I have seen out there online.
Blog style postings lead to these types of sweeping generalizations based off of small sample sizes, etc. I just expect more from a writer like you that I have always respected the opinion of in this community. But its your blog and I will probably continue reading it no matter what, but I will challenge you on occasion if I think you are missing a key component of an argument.
I too have noticed this of Duck fans. I grew up in NW Washington as a Cougar fan and always thought Dawg fans were bad. Since moving to Portland a decade ago, I’ve come to the conclusion that Duck fans are 10 times more stubborn and illogical than Dawg fans with respect to reasonable criticism regarding their school.
I have two friends that I chat with consistently who are avid Blazer and Duck fans. The Blazer chats are usually well thought out and enjoyable, even if we disagree. But, much like you stated in your blog, their hackles go up and their eyes turn blood red when anything negative is mentioned about their beloved Ducks. It’s fascinating…and extremely fun to jerk their chain! Maybe some day I’ll figure out why Duck fans are so protective of their teams. Until then, I guess I’ll be forced to shake my head and consider flipping the station when they begin ranting.
Homerism isn’t limited to just the Northwest Mr. Dwight. If you seriously think it is, go talk to tOSU, UM, or ND fans and brighten your perspective on reality. No there’s nothing special amongst Duck fans, just a closer sense of brotherhood than most Pac-10 schools. I see people all over the country and when wearing my Duck gear, catch a “Go Ducks!” I’ve rarely seen that amongst other programs in the PAC.
If you don’t like covering Duck Football because you can’t take the feedback, I suggest leaving the subject of football alone period.
That being said, only time will tell on how the recent transfers will affect the 2009 and beyond seasons. Everything said now, is pure speculation. If I prefer to see the cup as half full, instead of half empty, then call me a Duck Fan! I’ll call you an pessimist.
GO DUCKS!
I guess it’s because we have to deal with so many sports hacks around here.
Being the highest profile sports team in Oregon (after the Blazers) we have to endure the sniping from “reporters” who whine about having to ask for interviews in advance, from jealous Beaver fans, and generally anyone who hates Nike or Phil Knight.
So, forgive us when we get a little sick of hearing the same, inane criticisms. Criticisms that are, how do you say, predictable?
Comments such as “Chip Kelly is losing the flock”, or “the spread system endangers QB’s”.
Turnover is inevitable when coaching changes occur; see comment above about Tennessee’s 11 transfers. As for QB injuries OSU had both QB’s hurt in their hand it off system, which incidentally lead the injury of their premier player, Rogers.
So, to sum it up. Most every Duck fan I know is disappointed and concerned about the dept with the “exodus” of THREE players (not counting Colletto who quit the game altogether). But we all feel that if they don’t want to be here, they should go. I give Kelly props for releasing them with no restrictions unlike Pete Carroll.
FYI, for an example of actual impartial, informative journalism see Rob Moseley’s blog.
Dwight,
What a half assed self serving post this was. Don’t tell me you don’t write with the full intent to raise a controversy. Duck fans react the same any other fans. Some rational some not. Personally I think Beaver fans are even more delusional than Duck fans. And sports writers are some of the most delusional individuals around. They are constantly making mountains out of mole hills dropping in a stick of dynamite waiting for the explosion. Then posting on blogs about how nuts the fans are. Yeah you are the rational one.
Dwight,
Just because Ducks fan reply with “extreme indignation, insults and generally grumpy opposition” to your posts does not mean they reply the same to all “negative” posts regarding the University of Oregon. It is simply a logical reaction to what they think of your rambling, nonsensical posts in general, not a reflection of the average response to criticism toward the university. Rest assured, Dwight, if you write something decent you may actually receive some positive feedback.
WOW! Joe Giansante is now you’re posting as “LukeMcduckfan?”
Dwight, And you are relevant to what? And how? You are just another media waste of time.
Dwight, you’re really proud of yourself for thinking that you elicited something special in terms of the response from Duck fans, but I’d have to say that most of the responses were well-reasoned and totally warranted. Possibly you’ve just gotten to a point where you’ve developed a thin skin despite your belief that your own opinion is superior to that of others.
I saw before that someone suggested you engage the fans of other major programs and see if you get similarly passionate responses. Perhaps eventually you might come to realize that sometimes you’re the one who is off-base and out of touch, and not place blame directly on those who called you out for it.
Dwight,
Just think of Duck fans like they’re journalists who have sources and use those sources to tell people a coach would be fired and backs up that notion with “I was right about the MLS team so I must be right about this.”
My point was that Roper is not as good as everyone makes him out to be. He was good filler, but not a long-term solution. Bringing Thomas or Costa off the bench gives Oregon the best chance not to lose a step if Masoli were to go down. The offense was limited with Roper in there, hand it off or throw short safe passes. However, Costa and Thomas also would be more likely to implode. Roper was the “safe” backup; you know what you get with him. The other two have way more potential for upside.
Duck fans are quite the myopic lot. I was a Ducks fan growing up (born in Eugene) but slowly let go of my allegience to them when I went elsewhere for college (PSU and EOU.) I still love to watch the football team, but with so many issues with character issues, recruiting, and general pomp and cirucmstance… It pushes me to watch NFL instead.
However, Dwight, the response you elicit from Ducks fans is nothing. Canzano is the current reigning champion of quacking off Ducks fans.
Canzano is the classic example of what is wrong with journalism and radio today. Have you heard those radio spots by 95.5 talking about how 95.5 is a great place to advertise because guys like Canzano and the MSP elicit such strong responses?
You elicit responses when you say things that are completely unfounded or simply being written or said to elicit said response. Just because someone like Dawson goes on his show and says how the Blazers should sign Stephon Marbury and gets 100 angry phone calls, doesn’t mean advertisers suddenly want to associate themselves with bad radio.
That’s why I responded to the posting by Dwight on the Ducks…because it reminded me of something Canzano would say with little thought. And I was only justified more when Dwight comes back the next day with “Duck fans are crazy and I love pulling their chain” routine.
If your goal is to just pull peoples’ chains, then you are no longer a journalist.
Dwight, I think my fellow Duck fans already feel slighted by the national media, and that the only thing coming out of ESPN’s mouth (for example) is USC this, and USC that. Oregon-based fans just want to feel important, without feeling simultaneously belittled.
The last thing I like seeing is for a local writer to take a local fanbase (Ducks, Blazers, Beavers, whatever) out to the perverbial woodshed, because of differing opinions.
Duck fans can no doubt be over the top, but I’m hard pressed to think that we are that unique. Try writing an article suggesting that Quizz Rodgers may be asked to shoulder too much of the offensive load at Oregon State and see what kind of response you get from Beaver fans. It may also be a bit off base to suggest that a handful of posters on this blog speak for the entire Oregon Duck fanbase.
I’m tired of the Duck/Beaver bias of the local media.
With nearly three thousand current students and many more thousand alumni within the Portland Metro area, a spectacular 351 acre nearby campus and finishing No. 2 in the Pac-10 baseball standings the WSU Cougars deserve more love from the local media.
Fight Fight Fight!!!
Dwight you should stick to covering professional sports as you obviously do not understand the passion of college sports.
We as Duck fans will continue to love and support the program regardless of what happens. I would never consider “donating” 7-10 thousand dollars per year for the Blazers but think nothing of it when it comes to the University (tax deduction helps).
While some Duck fans are myopic, most of us expect consistent 7-9 win seasons in football with the occasional 10+ win season and a shot at something special.
Dwight you should stick to covering professional sports as you obviously do not understand the passion of college sports.
We as Duck fans will continue to love and support the program regardless of what happens. I would never consider “donating” 7-10 thousand dollars per year for the Blazers but think nothing of it when it comes to the University (tax deduction helps).
Dwight,
Thanks man, your observation about Duck fans is a great example of a Fallacy in Argumentation. I think I can use this for a class I’m taking.
My only question would be if you think this is more of a “Sweeping Generalization” or a “Hasty Generalization” ?
Please reply.
When Roper is a starting QB on Sundays, you can talk trash.
I read the posts yesterday, and most of them made more sense than yours.
And yes, Duck fans are cranky. Part of that is due to low life jealous Beaver trolls who post on our blogs and call our pre-game shows on the radio.
The Ducks don’t go out and make t-shirts just because they won a game.
EM said:
That’s why I responded to the posting by Dwight on the Ducks…because it reminded me of something Canzano would say with little thought. And I was only justified more when Dwight comes back the next day with “Duck fans are crazy and I love pulling their chain” routine.
If your goal is to just pull peoples’ chains, then you are no longer a journalist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The goal of a journalist these days is to just get noticed. Because of declining readership traditional media is getting the squeeze big time hence you have Canzano, Jaynes and the like having to resort to ‘pulling people’s chains’. The only reason I’m here is because I linked off of another Duck site, not because I’m a reader of Jaynes or the Portland Trib.
Dwight please don’t jerk my chain, leave that to my wife please. Thanks
Fellow Ducks: Why do you care if the media loves us or doesn’t care at all? How does it affect your enjoyment of supporting your team?
I’m not white knighting for Dwight at all here; I’ve disagreed with him in the past and will again in the future, I’m sure. But his posts here hardly represent any ulterior agenda to bring down mighty Oregon. He has his opinions just as we have ours–and in this forum, ours actually get roughly equal billing. That hardly sucks.
As for whether Ducks fans are more vehement with their outrage against stories they feel are negative for their alma mater, my own experience differs from Dwight’s, but I think too many of us are far too prickly. Flaming people rarely wins them over to your side.
When I read these invective-spewing screeds I’m momentarily embarrassed to be a Duck, but then I tell myself: These jokers are mostly outliers who don’t represent the faithful at large; or more likely, they’re just fans who are over-invested, who (hopefully) never attended my university.
Dwight,
Reading your post, I can only conclude that you believe the purpose of your blog is not to inform and comment on regional sports, but instead to “jerk the chains” of fans.
That being the case, your blog serves no useful purpose and I can feel confident going forward that ignoring it will not cost me any insight. I appreciate you being honest about this and saving me a lot of time in the future.
Go away Hank. As an alumni I can say in all fairness, that Mr. Jaynes is a hack who admits that his journalist prowess is now reduced to that of “jerking the chains” of fans…..
Don’t hold it against us for calling him out on his flawed analysis of current events. When a formerly employed journalist resorts to such things on his blog, we are with the bounds of reason to say so.
Hank,
I know you are responding to others here that talk about feeling unloved by the media, but I don’t care about that. I don’t care if someone hates Oregon altogether as long as they make valid arguments and support their beliefs with facts.
The overall problem I have with Dwight’s postings the last couple of days is he took a couple of harmless sentences he read from Chip Kelly (probably didn’t even hear the audio or see the video), over-analyzed them and extrapolated them into some global coaching/leadership issue with Oregon Football.
Then, when people like me give valid counterpoints on his blog because DWIGHT LETS US POST REPLIES TO HIS ARTICLES, he turns around the next day, and instead of defending his previous points, he calls Duck fans wacko, alludes to other “insiders” feeling the same way, and claims to just love riling Duck fans up.
In essence, Dwight is becoming the exact posters he despises for “trolling” on his website. I’m just not seeing where most of those responses yesterday were anything but valid criticisms of his entry that were as informed or more informed then what he, himself, posted.
The best site for Duck info is Rob Moseley’s blog. The best site for Blazer info is Blazersedge. Why? Because both of those sites are run by people well informed, making well-founded arguments, in a civil environment, and not getting carried away drawing conclusions off of small sample sizes, a single quote, a single game, etc. It may be boring at times that Moseley or Dave at Blazersedge doesn’t scream “the sky is falling” but over the long-run, they’re more spot on with their analysis.
I’m more trying to defend the intergrity of debate and lively discussion here than trying to make Dwight Jaynes love the uniforms of the Oregon Ducks. I could care less about that.
I also want to say, in defense of Dwight, that I don’t label him anything like Canzano. He’s far superior to Canzano and I value Dwight’s insight far more when he normally defends his points better. I felt like his Duck entries the last couple of days are like something Canzano would do, and that is why I was disappointed.
Canzano is a complete hack. He writes to incite response or to win awards. It never comes across genuine and everything gets blown up into some sort of conspiracy like its a John Grisham novel. Its simply not good journalism. He focuses 10 columns a year on some human interest story about some fan’s dying dreams so he can submit them for awards and then writes another 30 articles talking about the evils of people like Mike Bellotti and Paul Allen before going to work for one of them himself. Canzano is phony.
I still like Dwight. I just wish he would have approached things differently on his recent Ducks postings.
Dwight, apparently you have never, even once, encountered SEC fans on a blog. When Tennessee came out to play Cal, their fans said that Pac-10 fans were way too nice.
I lived in SEC country for a great number of years before coming back to Pac-10 country and I know how rabid those fans really are. There is no way you would get an SEC fan to take any kind of criticism about their team – note one or they’d get disowned by their family, their family’s friends, their co-workers, their co-worker’s friends, and the local pastor to boot.
Duck fans are way too tame.
@ (the fake) James…
Saying you are the second highest profile team in the State of Oregon is like you being Kathy Griffin in a room with Billy Mays and Vince from Sham-wow. Everyone kinda knows who you are if they have to really think about it, but they couldn’t pick you out on the street if they weren’t looking for you.
Full disclosure: I’m an Oregon Stater. The difference between Beaver fans and duck fans is that Beaver fans know the teams we root for are irrelevant to folks outside the Northwest. If you want notoriety, you have to storm the national scene (see baseball). duck fans (blinded by ridiculously successful internal marketing) think the teams they root for matter to someone outside of the region. Sorry guys and gals, but our beloved teams here in Oregon aren’t noteworthy in the South or Northeast or anywhere outside of Oregon and Washington. Hell, the average SEC fan doesn’t even know the difference between OSU and UO. Bottom line, duck fan is delusional hence the tantrums when criticized.
Why fight it?
Yeah, Oregon State isn’t delusional and never throws tantrums with firemikeriley websites like they could find a better coach. The bottom line is both schools have the same percentage of fans that are delusional, but in this specific case, disagreeing with Dwight’s posting is not delusional, its actually very rational.
Hmmmn. If Oregon football lacks national exposure please explain to me why College Game Day came here twice in one year? Explain to me why they have already booked hotels for three different weekends this year? Explain to me why Oregon continues to get national exposure, such as Chip Kelly on Jim Rome, or Mike Bellotti appearing on the upcoming ESPN College Football Live? They’ve been on the cover of Sports Illustrated (looking at it on my wall right now), they’ve finished in the top ten. They’re a preseason top 10 pick.
Oregon continues to matter (because they’re good) and despite their recent success (not counting 28 winless seasons) the Beavers never get any love. So I understand you must be feeling a bit blue. But you can at least try to be factual.
Dwight- most of the time I enjoy your posts but I gotta tell ya, this one is pretty stupid. You are really reaching here. Sports fans will always have their biases. It’s called passion. Accusing people of not bing able to see things from both sides is what people who lack insight do. SOrry but you are dead wrong on this one.
The ducks haven’t been any better than the Beavers over the last 10 years. Look at the records. Facts are facts, buddy. Mike Riley has been on Rome several times, OSU football has been on the cover of SI. Next time you are in SEC country (provided you actually have ever left the state) ask a Florida fan how much he knows/cares about duck football.
It’s so fun poking at you children. No wonder Dwight writes about you guys.
James- you clearly prove that OS and stupid are synonomous. I know those are some big words for you. Maybe with the money you earn from your paper route you can buy a dictionary.
65-38
No Rose Bowl for ewe.
I’d say you guys and gals made Dwight’s point for him. My goodness, right to the “you’re stupid” and “you work a paper route” slams. But hey, I’m not worried about it, guys. I love the Beavs (and root for the ducks when the Beavs aren’t involved) but I’m also aware of the limitations of our location. There’s a reason that the four Northwest Pac 10 schools have exactly one Heisman between them. Both schools in Oregon are perceived as small time to everyone else. Sorry, but that’s a fact until someone rips off a national title.
duck fans take great pleasure in lighting up the 28 year streak crack…The reality is, it doesn’t burn; not one bit. To me, the steak shows how far the OSU program has come in a relatively short period of time. Additionally, I think it made me and other fans who sat in the rain through years of losing, college football realists. I learned to enjoy the hell out of the good times but don’t get all worked up when things go wrong or all bent out of shape anytime someone criticizes the program.
Thanks for speaking the truth, Dwight!
Dwight Jaynes knows nothing. The world would be a better place w/o his “writing”.
What Jaynes writes in his blog are opinions. Just like the comments we leave him when he says something dumb. But come on, everything in the world is relative. I really have to agree that if Jaynes went and wrote for a paper/blog in SEC country and was knocking LSU for their down season last year, or Tennessee for their recent downturn, the vitriol flung his way would be downright acidic. (ZEE GOGGLES! ZHEY DO NAHTHING!) So relatively speaking, in the Northwest, Duck fans pack the most “passion” if you will. BUT, let’s admit, there are plenty of fans from other teams who would react the same way. They just don’t give a crap, or even know, what Jaynes happens to be spewing from his mouth hole(or keyboard) at any given moment.
@(the real) James
You say that Northwest schools are irrelevant to anybody outside our area, and yet your Super Rodgers Bros hail from Texas! Isn’t that at least some evidence for you that maybe that trend has shifted? And for your info, whether it’s for zany fashion choices, Knight’s donations, or nationally televised games to go along with recent College GameDay attention, the Ducks are starting to register on EVERYONES college football radar.
(the real) James:
I love your “facts are facts” line. Here are the real facts that you ignored…
In the last 10 years
OSU: 79-45
UO: 86-38
7 games difference is significant especially when you factor in that during that time here are the list of bowls the two schools have gone to that only include a Pac 10 Top 3 bowl or better:
OSU: 1 Fiesta Bowl and 2 Sun Bowls
UO:1 Fiesta Bowl, 3 Holiday Bowls, and 3 Sun Bowls
Keep that list of bowl games in mind when you also look at the overall records. In 7 of the last 10 years, Oregon has finished the season by going to a conference Top 3 bowl or better, while OSU has only gone 3 times. That means OSU has had much easier finishes to to almost 1/2 of their last 10 seasons that help make those records closer than they really are. I love how OSU fans always conveniently ignore this. OSU hasn’t been a a single bowl game better than El Paso since Dennis Erickson was coaching…not even a token Holiday Bowl.
Last 4 Civil War Games:
2-2 overall record, but look closer at those games to determine which program is ahead of the other. Oregon is up by a combined 60 points over the last 4 Civil War games, which corresponds to the same timeframe since Oregon has changed their offensive philosophy from the Ludwig days to the Crowton/Kelly days.
Just like you shouldn’t just a pitcher solely by his wins and losses to determine how effective he is at his craft, you can’t just teams only on their head to head or overall records to really understand how good or bad they are. Point differential is the greatest judge of overall skill. Oregon was simply two botched FGs away from winning the last 4 Civil Wars. When you really understand that, you understand that simply saying the schools have split the last 4 Civil War games means the program are equal is simplistic.
There has been a real difference between the two schools in terms of overall relevance on the national scene. Oregon has been in the national picture 4 times in the last 10 years with 2-3 games to go in the season, not even including last year’s season where they improved to be one of the most dangerous teams in the nation by the end of the season. In 2005 and 2007, Oregon was completely in the national hunt with Heisman hopefuls (Clemens and Dixon) before those guys got hurt. Go back and check both of those QB’s #s before they got hurt. In that same time, OSU has had one season where they were truly in the national picture (Fiesta Bowl year).
I don’t really care if Gator or Seminole fan can tell the difference between OSU and UO right now. I can’t help it if people refuse to inform themselves more about the sport they supposedly love. If they want to stay in their little bubble, that’s fine.
EM’s last post is simply amazing and should be shown to every Beaver fan.
Good night now…
Dwight, guess you don’t read much about college football nationally,if you think Oregon fans are more touchy than other college fans. Did you get bonked on the head recently. You gettin too much sun??