A first look at what to do with Greg Oden
Man, I downright felt sorry for the guy in the first round. Other than a few promising minutes, he was embarrassingly inept under the microscope of the playoffs.
Don’t get me wrong. I still believe he’s got unlimited potential. I still believe for the Trail Blazers to develop into a championship team, he’s got to become a central figure. I still believe he can be that central figure.
But man, there was not a lot of improvement during his rookie season. I can’t really point to one thing that I could say he did better at the end than he did at the start. And without being on the inside to know the real dynamic of all this stuff, let me make one suggestion right now:
Go find Alonzo Mourning, wherever he is. The guy is big, mean, tough and has the heart of a warrior. He was one of the game’s great competitors. Ask Alonzo how much money it would take to come out and spend about a month, or two, with Greg Oden — then write him a check. Get those guys together — in the gym and everywhere else — and see what happens.
At the end of that time, we’d know a lot more about Greg Oden and where he’s going to end up.
NBA, Trail Blazers | Dwight Jaynes | May 1, 2009
Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Jaynes, Greg Oden, Portland Trail Blazers
Anytime Greg seemed to make an improvement during the season, he immediately regressed in his next game. Working on his development needs to priority one for the Blazers in the summer.
I totally agree – I wonder how much Lucas’ health problems figured into Greg’s lack of development, because here is clearly a kid in need of teaching. You can see he wants to get better, but he desperately needs instruction from someone who knows what they’re doing.
You couldn’t be more on the ball. ‘Zo has a similar skill set in terms of being a savvy shot blocker and smart interior presence plus he has the “junkyard dog” mentality that Greg desperately needs.
In a perfect world we could hire Zo similarly to what the Magic did with hiring Ewing to mentor Dwight Howard (or even Dikembe acting as a player/coach for Yao the past few years).
Dwight,
I know I’m going to be beat up for saying the unmentionable (especially among the Blazer faithful), but the lack of progress in Greg’s development can only conjure that oft-debated question: Did the Blazers make a mistake in not drafting Durant and opting for Oden?
I agree with most folks in thinking that in a few years, Greg could be a great defensive player, but right now Kevin Durant is a player who could have helped the Blazers in the series against Houston. Durant can create his own shot, and consistently score in double digits from the small forward position, something the Blazers lacked in the series. Durant wouldn’t need to be coached by Alonzo or another center; he’s ready now.
I understand the thinking behind drafting Greg – his potential was just too tantalizing to forego. But as we saw in last night’s game, the Blazers need a consistent third scorer behind Roy and LA, and I think this was more a problem during the Houston series than the defensive lapses the Blazers had.
I just hope Greg improves next year. At any rate, the Blazers had a great season, and I am proud of them. I wish them well. Go Blazers!
Mike
P.S. Dwight, I think you’re doing a great job with your columns. Keep up the good work.
DC Mike — I just find the Oden/Durant conversation so yesterday. I mean, what’s the point? They took Oden. Let’s talk about moving forward with Oden, rather than the should-haves and could-haves. Thanks for the kind words,
– Dwight
Greg, in a lot of ways, is almost the anti-Shaq … both physically and mentally.
Physically, Oden needs to practice, practice, practice — the kid needs time. Don’t they say you need 10k hours of practice to reach your full potential at something? He’s probably 4-5 years away on that standard of getting where he needs to be, especially with his injuries.
Shaq, on the other hand, just had so much more coordination and a chip on his shoulder when he got to the league. Oden seems like he just kind of fell into it the No. 1 draft pick (like some work study job in college that has nothing to do with your major). There is no fire, and seemingly no drive to improve (but that is just based on observation).
And that brings us to the mental aspect to Greg. His basketball IQ seems fairly undeveloped and you can tell from his reactions and actions that he’s used to physically dominating his way to the basket — without a drop of finesse. Since the NBA actually has players that can physically outmatch him (unlike college or high school), he’s in the position now where he either has to get creative and skilled, or, simply, fail.
Actually, this is what’s happening on the defensive end too.
I know it’s harsh, but Sam Bowie actually had more skills coming into the NBA than Oden.
But to get back to Zo, he’d be great … I 100% agree with you. BUT, EVEN MORE SO THAN ZO, Hakeem would be another great person to introduce Oden to. Imagine Oden with that sick fade-away baseline jumper? How much would have that opened up the middle for Aldridge and Roy in this last series?
Truly, if Oden picked up even 50% of Hakeem’s skill set, the Blazers would be LETHAL!
Oden had some great moments in this series defending Yao, for which he deserves credit. I think he also deserves some kudos for being a valuable contributor this year despite being nowhere close to the athlete he was pre-microfracture. Wow though– its painful to watch him try to cut off a guard’s penetration and inevitably bump him. Its painful to watch him fumble, stumble and bumble on offense.
I totally agree that the Blazers need to get him some coaching help. I’m also going to cross my fingers that a full off-season allows him to regain some of the athleticism and coordination he used to have. Amare Stoudemire took 2 years to return to his full powers after microfracture. Maybe Greg will be the same.
Although I’ve been a big critic of Oden’s throughout the season, I’ve never doubted his athletic ability. Physically Greg is a beast and other than his inability to stay healthy for long stretches, there is no limit to what Greg could do from a physical standpoint.
Greg’s problem is his heart. He lacks the heart of a warrior and he refuses to do what he needs to do to win. Instead he just floats around on the court with no interest in impacting the game. If you want an example of what I’m talking about, just look at the effort we got from Joel last (every single) night. Bringing in Zo won’t change Greg’s heart or his desire.
Ever wonder why Greg hasn’t learned to stop fouling? Do you think it’s simply a lack of coaching? The answer is NO. Greg has had two years now to learn how to stop reaching, bumping, how to move his feet, etc. Again, he hasn’t improved in this regard because of a lack of desire. If he really wanted to improve he would have the pride to take it upon himself to do so. Instead all we get from him is the slumping shoulders, head down, blank stares into the crowd, etc…
If the Blazers want to move forward I really believe they need to explore parting ways with GO now. He still has trade value and there are players out there that we could acquire that would get this team to the next level immediately.
Right about Roy, no question. But he’s smart — really smart — and I expect him to keep ahead of the learning curve.
I’ve thought about Oden/Durant the same way since the day we won that lottery pick: if both even get close to becoming megastars, there’s a 75% chance Oden stays here longterm, and a 10% chance Durant does.
0% chance he stays in OKC. After the bloom wears off, that franchise is going to have serious problems keeping players.
Dwight,
Great job on this blog! I have heard you on the radio before, but just now looking at the blog.
I like the idea of bringing in someone like Zo to really push Oden to become a tougher and more disciplined player. What I see is a real lack of internal motivation to be the best – be someone worthy of a NUMBER ONE pick overall and a $5M contract. Think about that: this guy gets paid more than BROY and LA! I realize that’s the nature of the business, but shouldn’t that fact somehow motivate a guy?
Or how about people like Brook Lopez and Joachim Noah, people who were supposed to be questionable NBA players at best, turning out to be 3-4 times the player Greg is right now. That’s downright embarrassing. But for some reason, I don’t feel like any of that ever reaches Greg inside his basketball soul.
At this point, he really has shown me nothing, and I am not optimistic that he will turn into anything more than what Pryzbilla brings right now (toughness, defensive discipline, some sort of footwork). Can Greg turn into the team’s enforcer, like Joel?
I say we give him one more season to figure this out, and then we seriously have to think about other options. Joel cares about his game and I believe he still has an opportunity to improve and opt out of his contract at the end of next year. We better know that Greg can get it done by then.
Best regards to all.
I like the concept Dwight. Alonzo would be good mentor for Greg. A even better one would David Robinson. The guy is not coming off injury, and his naval academy background would probably help Greg alot. Hakeem is another great one to bring over. Maybe the best concept would be if the team did a three tier concept.
This summer you work with Mourning. the summer of 2010 you work with Ewing/Robinson. The summer of 2011 you work with Robinson(if you get Ewing the prior year)/Olajuwon (sp) or maybe Shaq by then. With a different great center each summer to work out with you’d think Greg could pick up something from each one and attempt to improve upon each one. Talk about master teaching.
A mentor would be a good thing, as long as Greg respects the dude.
I’m a little disappointed that Nate hardly ever let Greg play enough to get confidence. Two fouls- go sit. After a while that starts to play with your mind. Let the guy run and learn- screw the number of fouls.
So some of this is Greg and some of it is Nate (who I view as just a bit too much of a control freak for my taste).
greg having a mentor would definitely be a good thing, i wonder if this is something they could line up for the guy?
if they need to find alonzo mourning, he’s out living the g2 life.
also, if he continues to play golf just like he continues to play pool he’s gonna get better at it.
forgot to include this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbFe14WmktE
I’m done hyping Greg Oden. I’m glad this isn’t a fan site, we can actually be critical and not get killed!
Oden has sucked, period. He’s a bust – so far. His on-court demeanor is terrible. He’s less coordinated than I thought he was after watching him in college.
I’m done counting on anything from him in the future. He’s Kwame Brown so far. I hope he magically develops – just like all Blazer fans – but right now, I just don’t see it.
I’ve suggested as much myself, except with Bob Lanier. Lucas’ health problems have clearly hurt Oden’s development.
Oden is terrible as it stands, but that doesn’t have to be true forever.
Not a bad idea, BUT can you really teach toughness??
Greg doesn’t seem to show any real toughness while on the floor. It takes more than size.
At last sighting Mourning was peddling a performance drink (purple colored water?) and talking about his golf game with “Tracy”
I’m not saying Zo wouldn’t be a good “big man’s coach” for Oden, but just because an athlete was a good player doesn’t necessarily mean he could coach up a younger player. (This has been demonstrated in various sports over at least the last century, some star players can teach, others had natural ability and don’t know how to communicate their skillset to others.)
On the other hand…there is a big man’s coach with a proven track record who will be available in a few weeks. I heard Rick Barry mention his name on seperate radio interviews in the last few weeks. He was Barry’s teammate on the Warrior’s championship team in the mid-70s, and he has coached big men with success for several NBA franchises, already. Currently, his contract has not been renewed by the Celtics which means he’ll be a “free agent” position coach when Boston’s playoff run expires. I suggest Kevin Pritchard hire Clifford Ray to coach Greg Oden, and pay him whatever amount of money it takes to make him a part of Portland’s coaching staff
(BTW, Boston assistant coach Tom Thibodeau would be another excellent hire, but I’m not sure about his contract status)
Don’t you think we should have developed him as more of a Hakeem Olajuwan type of player? Wasn’t he outdoing Aaron Brooks in agility and speed drills? How much would Hakeem’s game suffered if he was told to bulk up like Shaq or even David Robinson.
Get him light. Get him quick. He is slow and heavy and that hurts him and this franchise. He gets back his agility and speed and THEN he’ll become a feared shot blocking presence in the paint.
“Portland itself played at an agonizingly slow pace all season.”
That is the summary of the season. I can’t tell you how many times I saw Steve Blake this year get the outlet pass and dart up the court with numbers only to pull back and set up the offense. I cringed every time they did this. How many times were you yelling ‘PUSH IT!’ but knew they were gonna settle for a jumpshot.
I realize that the slow-down caters to Brandon’s game, but can’t they finish a break every now and then, especially being the so-called youngest team in the league?
Its a waste of young legs if you ask me and it has to change. Maybe its the Great Blazer teams of past that ran a team into the ground, but it was effective and more often than not produced successful and exciting basketball.
Nate, quit being so stubborn and change your philosophy.
amen
Oops. That was an amen to Dwight article and the idea of bringing Mourning in. I got so excited by the idea that I commented without thinking or reading the other comments.
Get him off the protein shakes & slim him down. Get him in great condition (people forget how incredibly FAST and agile he used to be.) Teach him footwork (spin, drop step, up and under, jump hooks.)
He is a competitor, just watch the 07 tournament.
Nate needs to learn how to handle his minutes, teammates need to look for him.
First of all, I doubt any of the people leaving comments here are qualified to diagnose Oden as heartless or lacking motivation. Get off that people. You have no idea what’s going on in his head. As for Oden’s struggles, the reasons seem obvious to me: 1. He has no lift – actually, he can barely get off the ground half the time. This is at least partially to blame for his offensive footwork problems and his shooting woes. He’s constantly off balance. 2. He struggles keeping a grip on the ball, which according to Jason Quick is a result of his overly-sweaty hands (apparently, Oden uses some kind of stickum to help combat this). 3. Defensively, he uses his arms to play defense far too often.
And Dwight, do you really believe Oden has the tools athletically to be a go-to player on offense? I just never saw that out of him, in college or otherwise. I still don’t understand why scouts were so high on him coming out of Ohio State. He just never seemed very coordinated to me. Just big. Does anybody else out there feel the same way? The idea that 7-footers like him are so rare is a myth. There everywhere these days. What am I missing here?
“I can’t tell you how many times I saw Steve Blake this year get the outlet pass and dart up the court with numbers only to pull back and set up the offense”
I used to cringe when Michael Holton did the same thing for the Blazers back in the mid-80s
Is this a Nate problem or a Blake problem? Steve is good at looking up the floor and hitting Aldridge with a “lob” pass when LaMarcus has a step on the defense, but I haven’t seen Blake run too many traditional fast breaks (drive the middle and dish to wing cutters) in the past few years
Which is why I’ve suggested that Blake become the Blazers backup point guard and the team upgrade the PG position with a player who can drive, finish and dish for at least 12 months, now
Sergio can drive and dish, but not finish and/or draw a foul
Bayless can drive and draw a foul, but not dish (yet)
So, the optimal starting PG will have to come from “outside” the organization. The free agent point guards this summer are Miller, Kidd and Bibby. Too old for my liking. So a trade is in order, or a sign and trade. Assets that are expendable (IMO) are Outlaw, Sergio, draft choices, Paul Allen’s money and the trade exception acquired with Michael Ruffin
Let the “speculation season” begin in earnest
One thing that worries me is that most good big men want to be point guards. Shaq loves dribbling the length of the floor. Manute Bol loved shooting the 3s. A lot of them pride themselves in having little guy shooting and ball skills. At least they like to think they do.
I don’t see that with Greg. He likes dunking, he likes rebounding, and he likes banging. But he doesn’t like being the center of attention when it comes to shooting. He doesn’t seem to get any thrill from sinking even a short jump shot.
Maybe he knows something about his shooting ability that we don’t, but he’s not bad from the freethrow line.
If I were his coach I’d say at least one 15-footer a game, and no more dunks ’til he learns how to shoot from 6 feet. Go back to the old college rules in practice at least. Shoot the damn ball.
The Judge – the reason scouts were so high on him was the guy is a freak athlete (check out his combine numbers before the draft)as well as the fact that he was the national high school player of the year twice during his time in high school. He was only the second player ever to pull that off, the other one….LeBron James. Lastly, anyone who saw him in the national championship game dominate that Florida front line full of NBA players, saw a guy who could be a great NBA player.
Just because he didn’t have a great rookie year, don’t fool yourself, this kid still has a mountain of upside and potential
Greg needs to learn the soft touch skill, and use it occasionally. He’s already up there, just drop the ball in the basket! He misses half his shots because he tries to bring the rim down every time.
The Judge,
If you want a quick tutorial on desire/heart, or lack there of, just watch the difference between Joel and Greg on the floor.
One guy is diving for every loose ball, fighting for every rebound, working his @ss off to be in the proper position defensively, blocking out, not allowing balls to be knocked from his hands, etc. That is ALL desire/heart and not something that can be taught or something that will suddenly return post-24 months after microfracture surgery.
I’ve never heard so much conjecture about a person’s personality in my life. This is like reading a tabloid claiming truths about a celebrity’s personality, when in reality they’re just paying hack photographers to stalk them from 50 feet away.
Greg Oden is 20.
These “You’ll never amount to anything because of the following reasons amounting to my claims to know your personal and psychological makeup intimately!” have gotten beyond annoying.
You know Greg oden through the teevee and the newspapers and the innernet. Which means, quit armchair quarterbacking — you DON’T know him.
oden is a true bust
Baby Huey, I did see those numbers and they are impressive. Maybe the surgery took more out of him than we were led to believe.
Franklin, Oden goes for as many blocks as Joel does. The difference is that Prizz has superior lateral quickness and doesn’t bring his arm down. That has nothing to do with heart. For now, Prizz is just a better athlete. As for the other stuff you mentioned, same thing. Prizz gets around quicker. Chris Paul is twice as quick to the ball as Prizz, but that doesn’t mean Paul works harder. I just think Blazer fans are fooling themselves if they think Oden’s problems are mental. If only.
I love the Alonzo Mourning idea – the Hakeem Olajuwon idea and the Patrick Ewing idea both have merit as well. I might rank Hakeem first, Alonzo second and Patrick third.
Walton, too. – Elgin
People always forget to mention David Robinson as a potential mentor. Greg idolizes that guy. Plus, he’s not coaching anywhere aKa Pat Ewing. Or Greg can go to Africa and workout with Hakeem.
Love the mentor idea. Not sure Zo is the right guy though. I would like someone with a more polished offensive game like Hakeem, Robinson, etc. When I saw Greg play in the NCAA finals he really reminded me of a guy like Hakeem who could have smooth, agile offensive moves. Will he learn that from Zo?
Wouldn’t Mourning also teach Oden how to act like a prima donna, force buyouts, and act like a prima donna?
Send him to Lithuania! Learn from the greatest passing, and greatest shooting, greatest fundamental big-man of all time.
The one and only Arvydas Sabonis.
I have been preaching the Zo philosophy ever since he retired. DHoward has Ewing, Bynum has Jabbar. Heck, even Jack Sikma is on the Houston bench. I doubt you could get DRob or Hakeem, but the suggestion above regarding Clifford Ray is a fine one, too. Sounds like McHale isn’t too long for those cold Minnesota nights, might he be willing to come in and work with both LA and Oden? I’d love to reach out to Sabonis and see if he’d like to come over for a couple consecutive summers. My last suggestion? Former Blazer, and OSU alum, Steve Johnson. May not be as high profile, but the guy had great footwork and had plenty of offensive skills that could be shared. I love Mo Lucas for teaching toughness & defensive skills (he’s our Rick Mahorn), but I don’t think he’s the answer on teaching low block skills. Remember folks, Oden played half a season at OSU and missed out on TWO consecutive summers for skills work due to injury. He’s a gelding when it comes to physical & mental basketball skills right now. Be patient. Bynum was NO BETTER when he was drafted.
Greg went through all of training camp trying to not get hurt. First game, hurt. After his return, he started his slow learning process which ended with the cracked kneecap, hurt. So, he recovers from the broken kneecap as a sub, and gets a foul every 4 minutes and never gets in game condition. He plays a couple minutes until he gets two (often stupid) fouls, and sits. Returns in the third quarter, gets another foul, sits. Gets a fourth foul and sits the balance of the game.
Let’s start fresh next year. Play with that free-flowing athleticism you had before the micro-fracture surgery. Be a part of the team and have the guards deliver the ball where you can do something with it. Stop committing the “automatic fouls.” Stop the juvenile hanging on the rim. Indeed, let’s find a mentor or attend whatever the modern equivalent of Pete Newell’s “Big Man’s Camp” is.
And fans/critics, give the guy a break. Let’s see what he can do when he starts the year healthy and really plays rather than trying to avoiding injury. Both he and LaMarcus should be two of the fastest big men in the league, let’s run.
Would any NBA GM trade for Greg Oden ??
Trade his arse
He doesn’t have any smarts..
He kind of reminds me of Travis Outlaw.
THAT isn’t going to get any better.
B-Roy needs to become a better distributor and pick up his defense – it looks like he picks his spots to play D and too many times he’s whining to the refs about a no-call on offense while everybody else is busting back down court on defense. I know I’m nit picking, but he’s the team leader and needs to set the example. And I’m not too sure I like how he’s saying “my team” in interviews and I know I don’t like hearing how him and some of the other Blazers were laughing it up in the showers after last night’s game. Let’s all hope B-Roy doesn’t get too big of a head as he continues to grow.
I’m not sure Oden can put in the effort to become a great NBA player without having his frail body give out on him. He’s got the gait of an old man already. If he really worked hard 11 or 12 months in a year, he’d probably blow something out.
But since we’re going to burn most of next year waiting some more for Martell Webster to come along, we might as well keep the Oden Project going. At least he appears to be a decent guy off the court.
Scott S: BRoy is a shooting guard/small forward, not a point guard, right? Yet he averages the second most number of assists per game on the team, and is the team’s only go-to guy when it counts.
Other teams now realize he’s the only option at the end of games, and have started double-teaming him more frequently. I think we will see BRoy’s assist numbers go up next year, as long as he has reliable teammates who make open shots.
“I’m not sure Oden can put in the effort to become a great NBA player without having his frail body give out on him. He’s got the gait of an old man already. If he really worked hard 11 or 12 months in a year, he’d probably blow something out.”
The human body is a work of art, and with smart, rigorous preparation, it can accomplish things you previously though unimaginable. Working hard for 11 or 12 months in a smart disciplined manner, might be exactly what Greg may be missing. If done correctly, he should avoid injuries…not get injured due to overtraining or training incorrectly.
Although I have my doubts about the Blazers athletic trainers, but that’s another story. Example, the fact Brandon Roy pulled a hamstring mid-season means he is being trained and stretched incorrectly.
It was sad to watch him fumble away the ball last night. He looks like he is just a big kid out of his element. He should have played college ball for at least a couple of years.
Sad!
MORE TOUCHES IN THE GAME WOULD HELP.
BRING IN DAVID ROBINSON TO HELP HIM.
CAN’T GET BETTER UNLESS THE TEAM HELPS HIM.
COACH NEED TO STOP PULLING HIM AFTER FOULS.
LET HIM GET A RYTHUM AND GIVE HIM A GOOD OFF SEASON THEN CALL HIM WHATEVER.
TO EARLY AFTER SURGERY TO JUDGE HIM WITH ALL THE OTHER VARIABLES. INJURY,TEAM HELP,COACHING OR LACK THERE OF, GAME PLAN IS FOR ROY.LET HIM GO AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!
Greg needs to work mainly on his footwork. It really all starts there and it is the area where he needs to improve the most. Part of that may be do to the micro-fracture surgery and part of it may have to do with the increased bulk…needless to say he needs to work with a big man who was fast on his feet…
Alonzo would be good, but I think a guy like Hakeem Olajuawon would be perfect. He was great on offense and solid on defense. I think he could bring Greg to the next level with his mentoring
Oden was playng ‘catch-up’ all seaon with his teammates. He was in the worst condition and it showed. Hard to improve that when he is going to spend the summer in school instead of in the gym.
I just want to see him report to camp in shape next year, that is all I ask.
Oh, man, that missed dunk last night was brutal! How can an athletic 6’11″ dude miss a two handed dunk with no one around him. This dude has no basketball skills. He always used size and strength in college and high school but he can’t do that in the NBA. He is a raw project that will probably take at least 3 years to develop into a 12 point 10 rebound guy. He also has to learn to move his feet and quit reaching at guys. A real project!