Subscribe Feed (RSS)Man, I downright felt sorry for the guy in the first round. Other than a few promising minutes, he was embarrassingly inept under the microscope of the playoffs.
Don’t get me wrong. I still believe he’s got unlimited potential. I still believe for the Trail Blazers to develop into a championship team, he’s got to become a central figure. I still believe he can be that central figure.
But man, there was not a lot of improvement during his rookie season. I can’t really point to one thing that I could say he did better at the end than he did at the start. And without being on the inside to know the real dynamic of all this stuff, let me make one suggestion right now:
Go find Alonzo Mourning, wherever he is. The guy is big, mean, tough and has the heart of a warrior. He was one of the game’s great competitors. Ask Alonzo how much money it would take to come out and spend about a month, or two, with Greg Oden — then write him a check. Get those guys together — in the gym and everywhere else — and see what happens.
At the end of that time, we’d know a lot more about Greg Oden and where he’s going to end up.
Tags: Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Jaynes, Greg Oden, Portland Trail Blazers
HE BETTER NOT GO TO COLLEGE AGAIN
Greg Oden will not get it done. He does not have the natural talent needed to play the NBA BB. There are things you cannot teach at bb player. I am not surprised he played bb this long since he is tall but that will not help in unless he makes a 180 degree turn. He does not look like he is willing to work. He gives up really quick and does not have that fight in him on a constant level needed to play NBA. I am not sure if he is intellectual enough to understand the breakdown of the position he plays. He does not to be the sharpest tool in the bucket. I just have a lot of doubts.
Oden’s play in game 5 prevented what could easily have been a Houston comeback (although it was for a short period of time).
Oden also dropped a curious hint earlier when he said that the first round was too long and should only be best of 5. That meant he had already awarded Houston the series victory. In his mind, he had tacitly admitted that if things were as he believed they should be, then Houston would move on to meet LA. At the time he said it, Houston had three wins.
Odly enough, Oden completely vanishes for game 6, even missing wide-open dunk, a blind man would make.
If I was a team mate … and big enough, I might have to kick his ass for thinking in those terms.
Most of you should really stop posting, because most of the drivel I just read is sprung from utter ignorance. I’m gonna make some wild assumptions in saying that none of you are former basketball players 6′6 or over and that nearly all of you don’t know what goes into coaching/teaching big man fundamentals (not an assumption, your comments reveal that you don’t.)
So, let’s put your glasses with the trendy thick frames back on, go oil your bike chains, and stop bitching about his heart, skills, or development, three things you know not a damned thing about.
His minutes were handled with ineptitude all season. His teammates (with a few exceptions) don’t look for him off cuts, screens, or drives, instead opting to toss him the ball with the clock winding down. Big men take YEARS to develop; learning footwork, post moves, and defending in the paint all take a few years to master…
And, for those mouthbreathers ranting about how he lacks the natural talent to play let alone excel, you must have been embroiled in watching a thrilling match of MLS while this kid was stomping all over teams in the 07 NCAA’s.
Yeah Matt your right, we don’t have a clue.
The fact that GO can’t make a 5′ jump shot, should be ZERO cause for concern. How about his inability to score on ANY shot other than a dunk? I guess it’s our eyes deceiving us and Greg really does have the talent to make a jump shot.
How about the fact that GO can’t get through a 5 minute stretch without fouling someone? Guess that’s all on the coaches. After all he shouldn’t be at all responsible for showing improvement in this part of his game throughout the year.
How about the fact that he can’t hold the ball while in the paint? Guess that’s all on the coaching staff as well.
How about the fact that GO showed ZERO improvement throughout the season? Again, on the coaching staff huh? After all you apparently think that Greg is NOT responsible for his own game.
How about consistently getting rejected from shorter white dudes? Guess a big man coach could fix that right away huh?
How about the fact that his teammates don’t trust him enough to get the ball to him? You’d probably put that on Nate huh?
How about the fact that Greg never took it upon himself to get into game shape? Again, a coaching issue and not a self pride issue huh?
How about the fact that Joel busted his @ss everytime on the court and the difference between him and GO got more pronounced throughout the year? Guess a big man coach will fix that right up huh?
How about the fact that GO didn’t have enough pride as a #1 overall pick to keep his spot in the starting lineup, even when given two opportunities to do so? Guess that has nothing to do with pride/heart.
Let me know if you want me to continue because I’ve only scratched the surface…
All those observations you and others just noted did in fact happen. Nearly all of the subsequent “analysis” of the commenters was a load of horseshit. If all those things are still happening 3-4 years down the line, then be concerned. See what happens to his game this summer and next.
About calling out his heart and talent: Well for one, none of you can possibly have a handle on the former. As for his talent, KP is no fool, there are a number of good reasons he was drafted #1.
He’s an intelligent, engaging kid and was a dominating player in HS and college. Just hope he gets the reps he needs & that he sticks around for you to enjoy it when he does.
I’m confused about this whole “big men take four years to develop” litany. Of course all the great players improve during their careers; but dominant big men dominate, or at least produce, from the beginning. It’s jump shooting that generally takes the most time.
Here’s some rookie lines:
Olajuwon: 21/12/2.7 (blocks) His rookie year was his fourth playing organized basketball.
Ewing: 20/9/2.1
Robinson: 24/12/3.9
Shaq: 24/13/3.5
Duncan: 21/12/2.5
Mourning: 21/10/3.5
Even Yao: 14/8/1.8 , and that’s his first year in US basketball.
Oden: 8/7/1.1
So what you’re saying, when you say he can’t be expected to produce, is that you don’t believe he’s a top rank center. I agree that if you are setting his ceiling as, say, Erick Dampier – but I don’t think that’s who you thought you were getting with that first pick.
KeS
KeS,
Of course you are correct. This crap about waiting 3 or 4 more years is just that….crap. For Greg to turn it around now would be akin to David Duvall winning the US Open. It could happen but it is so unlikely it isn’t worth considering.
If it weren’t for KP having to admit a giant mistake, I really believe Portland would be shopping Greg this offseason. If they hold him, his value will continue to freefall. Too bad for us that KP has such a giant ego…
KeS & Franklin,
Most big men do take longer to develop. Every center that KeS listed stayed in college for 3 to 4 years except for Yao. Those centers all had plenty of seasoning prior to their arrival into the league. All of the centers listed also had their teams offense ran through them so they had plenty of touches.
Greg was coming off one of the worst surgeries for a ball player to have and sat out of Bball for a whole year. I agree that he has been disappointing this season but to call him a bust after one season is foolish.
I think that you’re correct Dwight. Oden definitely needs a personal coach like ZO. More than anything it would be good to see some of Mourning’s personality rub off on Greg.
The puzzling thing to me about Greg is that he has no shot..
I mean,I see old guys at the park 60 years old that have a shot.
Can anyone shed any light on that please ?
Wasn’t he supposed to get at least 10-15 points off shots ?
Peacequiet: supposed to? Did Greg say that? Or maybe you got a glance at his ‘manual’ that had such claims? It was printed in the papers all season that the blazer coaching staff was saying that the plan was to use him for defense and rebounds…not as an offensive focus.
Franklin: you bring up some valid points. However you lose me when with the extreme stuff like “Made zero progress the entire season”. C’mon man. You can’t be that pig-headed.
The funny thing about extremism in either direction is usually that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
to f5:
Here is one of many articles that advertised him
as a scorer..
Try this one..
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Oden-070420
Is it possible to be critical of Greg without somebody always indicating you are wrong or mean spirited or both ??
I maintain that with all the time he had off,didn’t he have alot of time on the court just taking it easy just shooting ??
He doesn’t seem to be able to stand there and take the easiest of shots. It just seems strange he looks so awkward taking a simple shot.
Sure,he has a thunderous dunk,but I remmember everyone talking about him shooting with his left hand and doing fairly well. It seemed impressive at the time. Now he looks like a doofus making a simple shot.
F5..
A manual ?
Did Greg say that ??
PULEAZE !
Are you Mother Oden ?
Most comments I have heard over time about Greg seem like they came from “critic types” who have never worn a jock in their life.”
I only played HS ball; have been a gym rat most of my life, and have followed the sport forever. But although I’m no expert, I do feel like when I look at Greg I am looking at him like I would any other player and athlete in the gym, not as a hyped media figure.
From such a perspective, to me, he looks on one hand like a superior athlete and physical specimen with a ton of talent; who is not healed completely from a serious knee injury. Athletically, he can run and jump like few other big men, and has good hands and feet, generically speaking. He is very quick.
On the other hand, he looks like he just doesn’t know how to play basketball yet. He sort of just shoves the ball at the basket. His jump shot has good form for driveway shooting, but he has zero confidence in it. His hooks have sketchy form. He doesn’t know how to hold the ball, or how to dribbble. He doesn’t yet know how to go up strong; (despite appearances due to physical giftedness) or go up quick.
None of this is suprising, given that he has never really had a chance to learn the game. In college he was injured, right With the Blazers he was only rehabbing as well, right up to the beginning of the season. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he even had four years of training in HS.
He almost needs to go to basketball camp and learn fundamentals of his position. (I recommend Dave Cowens to tutor him, as he accomplished more with less, through refining his skills, competed well against more talented centers like Kareem; and has indeed taught basketball for decades.)
So quite unlike most of the other centers he is compared to, Greg is a basketball pup, and a still hobbled one at that. On top of all that he is rusty, even though there was never much to rustin the first place, skill wise. He really, really needs to catch up to be at an NBA level.
You just can’t judge anything about his skills, unless you want to look foolish, because he simply has not had a chance to learn them yet.
Now consider that it is notoriously time consuming to learn a pivot man’s skills from scratch, and for godsakes do the math on all this! Anyone who does that would not be talking about Greg how he is typically talked about.
Defensively he is so gifted he already looks potentially elite, except for the fouling. When he guarded Yao, his presence was on another level as compared to Joel, who is no slouch. He looked like a peer of Yao’s, generally speaking, not unlike Shaq is a peer. Also, the whole paint environment feels uniquely different with Greg patrolling. It’s a different level of “ownership”.
You can tell just watching for a few minutes that he is a potential defensive monster, which is about all we got.
Despite his almost profound lack of skills, he was able to dominate at the highest level in college, and go on to contribute meaningfully to an NBA playoff team.
In conclusion, Oden is potentially a top five center who just has a long way to go. If the Blazers don’t get him the tutelage he needs, and rehab his explosiveness; then yes, we have a problem. If he doesn’t work hard on everything, then yes, we have a problem.
But please spare us this “he just doesn’t have it” drivel.
f5, Dwight said the same thing with regards to no progress.
I should add: Did you all see the slam GO missed in game 6? Most people probably thought “this guy is terrible. He missed a dunk with no one in front of him!”
But all I could think was, “My God, when has anybody seen a sprinting, seven foot brute leading the pack in a fast break?”
Who cares if he missed the dunk? He got a little too excited to be running the floor like Lamarcus. But wow, what potential!
Greg Oden made little progress during the season because he never had time to learn the game, since you do that in the offseason. He had too little to build on or “polish”, skill wise. He didn’t get enough minutes to “learn by trial”. If you do the same amateurish stuff over and over you won’t improve.
Install several new skills first, throw him in the deep end, then watch him improve.
I whole heartedly agree with Rat.
I also disagree with KeS who just so happened to pick hall of fame centers who went to college for 3 or more years or centers that will be in the hall of fame. The one foriegn player he did pick was playing professional ball since the age of 15 and certainly had time to learn the game of basketball.
It is a fact that the center position in the NBA is the hardest position to learn of the 5 positions because you are the ancher on offense and defense.
If you want someone to be mad at then be mad at Nate for Oden’s performance because he didn’t properly develop Oden. Even being mad at Nate can only take you so far because after all Oden had 1 full year off from basketball and it takes at least a year to get back to form like it was before the injury.
For everyones sake, I am glad Oden’s rookie year is over and he now has some time off to reflect on this year and do the things he needs to do to be sucessful and ditto for the team and coaches.
“I also disagree with KeS who just so happened to pick hall of fame centers who went to college for 3 or more years or centers that will be in the hall of fame.”
Who do you want Oden compared to? Eddy Curry and Michael Olowakandi? I thought Portland *expected* Oden to become a dominant top-flight center.
I didn’t *pick* them – I gave you the top-flight centers in the NBA over the last twenty years. Where do you see Oden fitting in there?
Again, you can say Olajuwon played three years of college, but he never played organized ball *at all* prior to that. Oden took his high school team to state championships four years straight.
Akeem signed with the Rockets and bumped Ralph Sampson out of the center position in the *preseason*. Not Joel Prysbilla, Ralph Sampson. Akeem played one round in the playoffs his rookie year – 21/13. His second year he was dunking over Kareem, Magic, and Rambis at the same time. He stole the ball from Bill Walton three possessions in a ROW, dribbling the length of the floor for two dunks and an assist.
Is it reasonable to compare Oden to Olajuwon or Robinson? Maybe not – *clearly* not at this point. But then you need to stop predicting that he’s going to develop into that kind of player; because he’s showing NONE of that.
Offense not running through him? Of course not! He can’t stay on the floor! Whether it be fouls or injury; how can the Blazers run the offense around a 20-minute player who plays less than half the games? But that’s part of who he is. He only played half a college season because he was hurt – but that’s part of who he is!
Look, the big complaint about Yao Ming is that he doesn’t get the ball enough. Portland successfully denied him the ball during both the regular season and the playoff series. Houston fans want this to be the coaches fault, the opponents fault, the other players fault. But Yao has had this problem through different coaches, different opponents, and different team mates. He doesn’t have great hands or reaction, and he is slow laterally. You can’t just say “Well, if they would get him the ball he’d be the greatest center since Mikan.” His limitations on being able to get the ball are part of who he is as a player.
Oden has given NOBODY any sign that he will be healthy for extended periods. He has shown no signs of defensive quickness other than immediately at the rim. He has shown absolutely no offensive development at all. Now, you can say that he has to recover and develop, absolutely. But saying that at this point is also saying that his upside is limited; because all the GREAT centers had already shown much more even at the start of their careers than Oden has to this point. I wish him well, but as others have said, he shows no sign of being worth the #1 pick. That’s actually fine – your team isn’t built to play inside-out anyway. If Oden could play 35 minutes and be a 15-10 player, that will be enough for Portland success. But it will still go down as a bust of a #1 draft pick.
KeS
You correctly point out that Oden has really shown little to nothing at this point. That is a FACT. The bar was lowered throughout the year and even then he tended to underperform.
If GO were a #15 overall pick then there wouldn’t be the same level of criticism leveled at him, but that is not reality. He WAS picked #1 overall and he DID come into the league with similar expectations to Robinson, Shaq, Olajawan, Ewing, etc. KP and Blazer management did nothing to quell those expectations either.
At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that Blazer management knows they screwed up. Greg will never become the player they thought he could become. Aside from his inability to remain healthy (HS, college, NBA) and his extremely limited skills, he does not show the same level of fire that other great players show. If he did, he would have had the pride to take it upon himself to get better this year which he did not do.
At this point, Portland has two choices. Either they keep Greg and hope he develops into a 10/10 guy or they cut their losses and move on. After all, Greg still has some trade value that if packaged with talent could bring us a very nice player. Unfortunately for us, I don’t think that KP is the type of guy that will easily admit a mistake and move on. Instead I think it’s more likely he’ll stick with Greg to a point where it hurts our future. We’ll see.